So what is everyone thinking about the new Black Magic Cinema coming out in a few weeks? 2.5 res what is the Mkiii res? How do you think the BM will compare to the Mkiii? Do you think it would be worth waiting for the BM? Anyone on this forum planning on getting one of the first ones?
5d mkIII vs Black Magic Cinema
- Thread starter Corine
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Scott Freestyle
Well-known member
The question could be...how does a ferrari compare to a speed boat...
They are completely different... the comparison is not even worth the discussion ( with the greatest respect, and I really mean respectfully as I'm not trying to be rude ) comparing two camera's that have no features that are alike serves no purpose. It will just add to the myriad of countless nonsensical arguments on forums like these, and will essentially achieve nothing...
If you want to discuss the merits of the BMC, then at this point its too early.. The spec sheet looks great.. but we have seen nothing of any significance to get excited about. The package is very cheap and comes with a fantastic bundle.. for those that have preordered, I would have expected more footage to have been available to create some hype.. I have not seen anything since the footage from its announcement.
They are completely different... the comparison is not even worth the discussion ( with the greatest respect, and I really mean respectfully as I'm not trying to be rude ) comparing two camera's that have no features that are alike serves no purpose. It will just add to the myriad of countless nonsensical arguments on forums like these, and will essentially achieve nothing...
If you want to discuss the merits of the BMC, then at this point its too early.. The spec sheet looks great.. but we have seen nothing of any significance to get excited about. The package is very cheap and comes with a fantastic bundle.. for those that have preordered, I would have expected more footage to have been available to create some hype.. I have not seen anything since the footage from its announcement.
Finnegan
Well-known member
There seems to be a lot of buzz about the BMC because on paper it looks to offer a lot of really cool things. 12-bit 2.5K RAW, 13 stop latitude, internal recording to Prores or DNxHD...and all for $3,000. The camera is interesting, but I don't consider it a game changer - at least not until I see some actual footage. Also...it's a S16 sensor. Even if it was amazing, I'm fear I don't like the idea of all of my lenses suddenly gaining a 3x crop factor.
vision_filmz
Carbonite Member
The crop factor kills the camera...... Anything indoors will become a serious problem, outdoors you might be ok but like Finnegan mentioned. your lenses now will become like 3x and that my friends is something I personally cannot deal with. Very very different cameras and honestly they simply cannot be compared. Furthermore who in their right/left mind would pre-order a camera that has hardly if any footage out there?
People can say what they want about the 5d Markiii, but the truth is it is simply an amazing camera that will stand the test of time for now.
People can say what they want about the 5d Markiii, but the truth is it is simply an amazing camera that will stand the test of time for now.
David W. Jones
Veteran
Let's not spread misinformation. The sensor is larger than S16mm, and the crop factor is not 3X.
Its a 2.3x crop when compared to a full frame 35mm still, 1.6x compared to Epic shooting 16x9, 1.1x compared to the AF100.
http://www.abelcine.com/fov/
Its a 2.3x crop when compared to a full frame 35mm still, 1.6x compared to Epic shooting 16x9, 1.1x compared to the AF100.
http://www.abelcine.com/fov/
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While I don't think Black Magic is for me, I do think it's a game changer. I think the best thing about the BMC is that it introduces competition into the mid-range market. As a long time Canon customer, I just cannot support Canon anymore since their cameras lack very basic, yet essential 2012 features (true HD in 5D3 and no moire/aliasing in their newer cameras such as the T4I). Too much corporate greed for me to buy their products and feel good about it.
MAYBE if the Black Magic Camera sells really well, it will force Canon to step up their game.
As for me, I wrestled between a 5D3, a BMC or a Sony FS100. In the end I splurged and Pre-Ordered a Sony FS700. Sure it costs 2x as much as a 5D3, but it's 5X the camera as the 5D3. If Canon had a camera like the FS700, they would be asking $20K minimum, probably more. Thank God for Metabones for my Canon lenses.
So yes, Canon users should be thankful for the BMC. Even if you are not going to buy one, it will definitely force Canon to do better in the future. Competition is a good thing and Canon needs a bit of it.
MAYBE if the Black Magic Camera sells really well, it will force Canon to step up their game.
As for me, I wrestled between a 5D3, a BMC or a Sony FS100. In the end I splurged and Pre-Ordered a Sony FS700. Sure it costs 2x as much as a 5D3, but it's 5X the camera as the 5D3. If Canon had a camera like the FS700, they would be asking $20K minimum, probably more. Thank God for Metabones for my Canon lenses.
So yes, Canon users should be thankful for the BMC. Even if you are not going to buy one, it will definitely force Canon to do better in the future. Competition is a good thing and Canon needs a bit of it.
David W. Jones
Veteran
Well Canon does have camera like the FS700.
http://cinemaeos.usa.canon.com/products.php?type=Camera-c500
As for me, I don't pre-order any camera. I avoid the hype and wait till its shipping and get ahold of the production model to do my own testing before considering purchase.
http://cinemaeos.usa.canon.com/products.php?type=Camera-c500
As for me, I don't pre-order any camera. I avoid the hype and wait till its shipping and get ahold of the production model to do my own testing before considering purchase.
wgzn
Veteran
the big boat anchor for me is the crop thing. yeah, i know its not rocket science, but having to look for lenses that are effectively half of what i have in mind for a shot is just so confining.
in my experiences with the gh2, its pretty easy to find good looking portrait and telephoto glass. but finding something on the wide end that isnt overly sharp or overly muddy is really hard to do.
im kind of sour on the whole issue because if i want a full frame camera my choice is either crazy expensive cams like reds or arris (both of which still have a variety of cmos issues) or moire / sharpening / clip length with the variety of canon and nikon offerings.
from where i sit as a general shooter, not having big production budgets. im going to just sit on my hpx170 and gh2 until something truly game changing comes around for my market segment
in my experiences with the gh2, its pretty easy to find good looking portrait and telephoto glass. but finding something on the wide end that isnt overly sharp or overly muddy is really hard to do.
im kind of sour on the whole issue because if i want a full frame camera my choice is either crazy expensive cams like reds or arris (both of which still have a variety of cmos issues) or moire / sharpening / clip length with the variety of canon and nikon offerings.
from where i sit as a general shooter, not having big production budgets. im going to just sit on my hpx170 and gh2 until something truly game changing comes around for my market segment
David W. Jones
Veteran
Red and Arri are not full frame sensor cameras, they are S35 size sensor cameras.
The BMC is going to be infinitely better for color information and dynamic range. It will lack however the CHOICE of shallow depth of field at wider angles. Just as the focal length is multiplied, so too will be the minimum depth of field. The choice of glass currently for Canon mount lenses at wider angles limits us to f2.8 or the equivalent f5.6 on a FF DSLR.
I think the reality is that this is the first camera product from Blackmagic and that what may follow will really shake things up if it is successful. If the next iteration has a M43 mount, even more folks may step up to the plate, the DOF and speed will improve. if on the other hand a larger sensor follows, the same will once again be true.
However, it is not just that the specs (12 bit, RAW and whatnot) that are great. I think it is also that the sensor will really be optimized for the work that needs to be done to arrive at those specs. Not sure that this can be said of anything DSLR out there, including the GH2, even hacked.
At this price point, anyone who is shooting green screen or who has little need for extremely shallow DOF at wides is going to be very happy.
As an independant filmmaker, it is clear that this camera is a godsend.
But just in case, I already own the 5D Mark III.
I think the reality is that this is the first camera product from Blackmagic and that what may follow will really shake things up if it is successful. If the next iteration has a M43 mount, even more folks may step up to the plate, the DOF and speed will improve. if on the other hand a larger sensor follows, the same will once again be true.
However, it is not just that the specs (12 bit, RAW and whatnot) that are great. I think it is also that the sensor will really be optimized for the work that needs to be done to arrive at those specs. Not sure that this can be said of anything DSLR out there, including the GH2, even hacked.
At this price point, anyone who is shooting green screen or who has little need for extremely shallow DOF at wides is going to be very happy.
As an independant filmmaker, it is clear that this camera is a godsend.
But just in case, I already own the 5D Mark III.
New_Zealand
Veteran
Don't know anything about this new BM but here is link to BMS forum. It all looks good but I'm planning on getting the 5dmkiii for a few reasons;
1. I have two cameras in one package. I can shoot my film with it and I can also take great photos so this keep me from having to lug tons of gear around.
2. I will be able to build up my collection of lenses so when a new camera comes out that I'm interested in and can afford I will already have the lens department covered.
http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.p...echnology-Announcements-amp-Latest-Info/page2
1. I have two cameras in one package. I can shoot my film with it and I can also take great photos so this keep me from having to lug tons of gear around.
2. I will be able to build up my collection of lenses so when a new camera comes out that I'm interested in and can afford I will already have the lens department covered.
http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.p...echnology-Announcements-amp-Latest-Info/page2
LOL. I suppose since both the C500 and the FS700 will both have pretty solid images since they're both going to record 4K 12bit RAW. The main difference between the 2 is the the C500 is going to cost $30,000 while the FS700 is costs $8000, both without 4K recorders. That's a $22,000 price difference for two cameras that are going to be pretty close in terms of IQ.
One huge difference between the two cameras is that the FS700 has a universal mount that can use any lenses from EOS to PL. The C500 is going to come in 2 versions, EF and PL. That means, if you want to use both EF and PL mount lenses, you have to buy 2 versions of the C500 which = $60,000.
The insane amount of version-ing and petty crippling that Canon is doing to make you buy as many cameras as possible from them is why BMC and Sony are so needed. Those 2 companies are offering sensible solutions as opposed to incredibly insane prices / crippling from Canon.
As for Pre-ordering, I would be very nervous pre-ordering a Black Magic since there is no footage of the camera really. Exactly what Canon did with the 5D3. Taking peoples pre-orders, but releasing no video footage until the camera came out and then most people were left disappointed by the 5D3 soft image.
BMC should take a page from the FS700 and release some footage to back up the hype so people know what they are ordering. Months before the FS700 started shipping, there were already over 30 videos on Vimeo from the camera. Sony knows they have a real good product, so they have nothing to hide, and that way people feel safe pre-ordering since the cameras has been well tested.
BMC needs to do the same thing, otherwise it looks like they have something to hide.
Finnegan
Well-known member
2.3x crop might as well be 3x crop as far as I'm concerned. The BMC sensor is barely bigger than S16 at 15.81mm x 8.88mm (S16 is 12.52mm x 7.41mm), which puts it somewhere between S16 and M4/3 - both of which I consider too small for Canon's 35mm glass which I'm heavily invested in.
FS700 probably will not record 12-bit raw. It will be 8-bit. RAW configuration is not yet known.
C500 is for a completely different market than the FS700. Joseph Kahn looked at the FS700 and he said "It makes a shitty image". Those kind off heavyweight directors do not want anything even remotely video looking. They are also ready to rent cameras that are more expensive to get what they need.
And how is BMC offering any more sensible solutions? I don't see anything from them that competes with the fs100-700 or any of the DSLR's Canon has. Because the BMC can't take proper stills.
vincent thomas
Well-known member
I must second that. I really wanted and still wants to love the FS700 but despite being well priced and versatile, there is something i really hate in all the pictures i saw coming out this cam which distract me from my love of making pictures and film... Still hope to be wrong, but for now i cancelled my preorder, still have one for the BMC but wait to know more as well on this side.
When the Cs500 is supposely to be out?
v*
When the Cs500 is supposely to be out?
v*
The Canon C300 isn't full frame either but it is free of moire / sharpening / clip length issues & is very much cheaper than an Alexa & a good deal cheaper than even a Red Scarlet once you add in all the bits & pieces actually required to have a working Red camera.
dustylense
Veteran
The FS700 is a 1080p camera until Sony releases the 4k "upgrade" which will not be free. Might cost another $8,000 to add 4k though most likely a Sony 4k dedicated recorder. The C500 sits at a pretty attractive price point for what it offers. The BMDC is a nice indy raw cam at an incredible price point, but there is little to go by on camera specs like its ISO speeds. It has a built in battery as well. The Mk3 continues in the tradition of what the Mk2 gave. That big sensor and great low light sensitivity. It's also a fabulous stills camera. Actually, it's a stills camera first, just as the mk2 is. Here's hoping that the 7dmk2 or 3d will have some detail out of the box. And heres hoping the BMDC hits it out of the park and is truly what is advertised when it launches. All sorts of very nice cameras out there to choose from. ANd they all just keep getting better and better...
Barry_Green
Moderator
Depends on your definition of "barely". 15.81x8.88 = 50% larger than 12.51x7.41.
Both Abel Cine and Sony have verified that internal recording is 8 bit on the FS700, but when going to the external recorder, it will output 12 bit RAW.
As for the BM, I'm not too sold on the form factor. I wish it was a bit more functional. But the ethos of the camera step in the right direction for sure.
KyleProhaska
Veteran
Just to correct, the C300 is not free of all moire issues. I've seen some RAW footage with that wonderful rainbow pattern we love lol...but it's far more rare. It's nothing like a 5D would give.