5D Mark II and RED ONE comparison test

Dzip said:
er... not quite a startup company from scratch!
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If your referring to Oakley; that doesn't count.

That's like going from making shoes to making Apple computers.

Both could have extreme reputations and excellent company value; however making digital motion picture cameras that are damn good , is a whole new entire framework that requires running in completely different hemisphere........



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PappasArts said:
If your referring to Oakley; that doesn't count.

That's like going from making shoes to making Apple computers.

Both could have extreme reputations and excellent company value; however making digital motion picture cameras that are damn good , is a whole new entire framework that requires running in completely different hemisphere........
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Yeah, they just got all the people who were making glasses to start making cameras. :2vrolijk_08:

Let's be honest here, RED had vast funds to buy their way into the movie camera market with some innovative design and great marketing, the technical talent would have been headhunted from the very best out there - they are not a start up in these sense of a small company starting out with two guys in a shed and £4000 in cash.
 
I don't think it matters because good ideas attract good talent. His money would be just as good as a good business plan by the average joe to attract venture capitalists. In that regards it really is like playing in the same ball field. The big difference would be that all this back and forth peddling that Red has been doing would have pissed off your investors a long time ago making them pull out. Red has Jim's available cash to do with what he pleases.
 
By the way...I'm not hating on Red. I hope they do everything they set out to do but in a more timely manner.
 
William_Robinette said:
In no way is the RED 1 in trouble.

The amount of stuff the R1 can do that the 5D cannot is staggering (and should be considering each market they are aimed at) If you are shooting a studio film/national commercial, the 5D doesn't provide much needed support in the form of Timecode, genlock, things of this nature. No ramping, audio (professional), fps over 30, use of cinema lenses, long form recording. I could go on and on.

It amazes me people think like this. Guys, the market RED supplies is vastly different from that of the 5D. Each has their place, and neither is going to "give the other trouble."
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Thank you, William. While I know that you (just like I) would love a cheaper, lighter do-it-all-solution -- Scarlet is taking FOR EV ER -- it's always refreshing to see you never lose perspective and go off the deep end with silly ideas.

MKii is great, awesome, sweet, dope. It is still nowhere near RED (edit here) as far as FUNCTIONALITY and PROPER VIDEO IMAGE ACQUISITION, and remains a "cheap solution" to getting a decent image with several important limitations installed. (edit here) Yes, looks like RED @ 1080. But still is flawed enough to warrant caution.

When Canon decides to stop purposely crippling hardware, figures out a way to get a near-to-raw 1080 or 2K file to solid state media, Gives you 24P, 30P and allows at least 60P @ 1080 without line skipping and fixes the grotesque jello then they can compete with RED's first offering: a true, high-end digital cinema acquisition tool.

They should do it before Scarlet finally makes the transition from pipedream to reality. If history tells us anything by RED's show of action to the market on inception, then that S35 Brain's price tag should drop significantly on release date. Add to that the chance that it's FF35 with OPTIONS to go S35 IN-CAMERA, RAW workflow, etc etc... Nobody stands a chance.
 
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Why? the Red one was advertised at $17500 for ages while it was still vapour-ware and was $17500 on release and last time I looked was still $17500.
You assume Canon want to go down the path of making a Scarlet equivalent, They may well decide that it isn't a market they want to get involved with, remember this is from a photographic devision, and 'togs don't all need, or even want video in their cameras.
BUT if canon do decide they want a piece of the market, then watch out! Canon have HUGE R&D and their own semiconductor lines, they could steamroller Red into the ground, and could quite easily use their low-end cameras to subsidise selling a Scarlet competitor at a loss.
Remember what happened to the European camera market when the Japanese entered the market? phooof...gone, the whole European market apart from Leica and Contax, now only Leica is left, so don't think it couldn't happen to Red.
Dave
 
daveswan said:
Why? the Red one was advertised at $17500 for ages while it was still vapour-ware and was $17500 on release and last time I looked was still $17500.
You assume Canon want to go down the path of making a Scarlet equivalent, They may well decide that it isn't a market they want to get involved with, remember this is from a photographic devision, and 'togs don't all need, or even want video in their cameras.
BUT if canon do decide they want a piece of the market, then watch out! Canon have HUGE R&D and their own semiconductor lines, they could steamroller Red into the ground, and could quite easily use their low-end cameras to subsidise selling a Scarlet competitor at a loss.
Remember what happened to the European camera market when the Japanese entered the market? phooof...gone, the whole European market apart from Leica and Contax, now only Leica is left, so don't think it couldn't happen to Red.
Dave
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THey could have done it forever ago, though. 4K Camera's aren't new. They've been around for a while. Someone else posted a pretty good sentiment on the thought here in this very thread, just can't find it.

But, remember, Panasonic, Sony, Canon and everyone else COULD have give you more a LONG time ago. It takes much longer for a Corporate entity to cast out its capitalist mind, and I highly doubt any of them are ready for that.

They have a LOW END Consumer Market to protect and a PROSUMER Market to Protect, as far as Canon goes. The rest, more.

So, yeah, they could. But what are the serious chances of getting a product that can even touch RED's capabilities for as much as or LESS than the existing RED ONE?

Then throw into the equation that the fabled and non-existant "crippled" version of RED ONE-- Scarlet S35 or FF35-- will probably be an advanced version of a fabled and non-existant version of whatever Canon DOES release for even less...

I'm no RED Fan Boy, go find the thread I started over there about the GH-1 and MKii eating into Scarlet sales. Just that it is what it is. They could have been doing it all this time, they haven't. I don't see it likely to go beyond a prosumer offering that's still crippled and priced as much as the RED is.

Anyway, tools are tools. Use'em how you will.
 
Ok granted they couldn't do a Red one cheaper than a Red one, debatable, but lets take it as given, that's still $17500 bare $20000 or so kitted, the FF35 Scarlet is $9500 bare brain, probably nearer to $12000 ready to roll. These prices are WAY higher than even Canon's Pro spec cameras, let alone the enthusiast market, which is where I suspect Canon will be pitching, ie from 1D down, rather than up, which is why I left it open as to whether Canon wanted to enter that market. So what could Canon offer at Enthusiast level, lets say 5D-1D bracket? Well there is a rather gaping hole where the EOS 3 used to be, so lets say a 5D sized camera with 1D build quality, perhaps with a pellicle mirror like the EOS 3 RS (I Think), a 24 Mp 6000x4000 sensor down sampled to 3000x2000 for a compressed sRaw file, and a motion version of DPP to do the de-Bayering and windowing to 1080p. It would have 2 CF slots for motion and stills, assignable as needed. I don't think it would have XLRs, due to lack of room and 'togs hostility to such things, but perhaps 2 balanced inputs on 3.5mm jacks.
They could do all this, or the 5DII. 500D etc could be a brief phenomonon, before stills only cameras come back into dominance and video is relegated to compact cameras for the hard-of-thinking.
Will either happen? I don't know, I hope for the former, but fear for the latter.
Dave
 
I'm down for it! Competition and Market Saturation brings cost down. Supply & Demand, mang.

Eh, this is why it's just best to focus on what's out though; more productive that way. LoL
 
Kholi said:
I'm no RED Fan Boy, go find the thread I started over there about the GH-1 and MKii eating into Scarlet sales. Just that it is what it is.
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This is not a problem. Maybe the issue is that you've changed your talk every two weeks.
 
Caesar said:
This is not a problem. Maybe the issue is that you've changed your talk every two weeks.
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ACtually, nah, you people just take other's words out of context.

And that's a constant.

MKii's ergonomics for video acquisition suck. That's me.

There's too much to work around with the MKii as far as USING it, for me, same tune i've sung since BEFORE I even acquired one myself.

Stop reading into people's posts so much and interpreting for anything more than what they've said and you're golden.
 
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Remember Ferdinand Porche's dictum of form following function. DSLRs and video cameras have very different shapes for a reason, so saying the 5DII's video ergonomics suck is a bit of a straw man, I could as well say the Red One's DSLR ergonomics suck, with as little validity. This is why the Scarlet has added a DSLR-style handle. I stil think the Scarlet is too big to be a DSLR substitue as a walkabout cam, but I'm willing to be proved wrong.
I may end up getting both a 5DII and a 2/3" Scarlet, though the latter will depend on an improvement in the exchange-rate.
Dave
 
I dont know how many folks talking here have actually shot with a red. I did today and its a serious tool! to compare it with the MK!! is nice but like comparing a professional tool with a prosumer model.
 
I agree that you might not be able to compare the tool...but you can most certainly compare the outcome (final image).
 
Kit Hannah said:
And the Canon price is obviously MUCH more affordable to the average person than the RED
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Not if you gather together a gang of armed bandits and steal your RED1 in an audacious and moderately well planned robbery.


So where does that leave your argument now ?
 
The RED has TONS of benefits over the 5d but they kind of serve different purposes.

When I bought a 5d I didn't expect to liken it to RED, but the truth is that I just shot a music video half RED half 5d and it cuts great.

At this point I have shot extensively with both and for me, the form factor IS what makes me want to shoot on the 5d. No one knows I'm filming but I'm shooting footage that looks like it cost thousands and thousands of dollars for that day of shooting.

I can honestly say that the 5d is the best thing that has happened to me as a filmmaker. When I first used RED I was blown away at the quality for the price but now, not so much. I can run around looking like a tourist and use available light to shoot a movie. The freedom is incredible. No more boxes filled with camera gear. No more huge crews and huge lights. Available light, a small camera, and a couple of actors.

With that being said. This type of filmmaking is a very specific type and DEFINITELY doesn't work for everyone or every shoot, but for my money I'm more apt to make the project work with that type of filmmaking than go back to the days before I could shoot like this.

The camera is so easy to shoot with it makes me want to shoot all the time.
 
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