5D Mark II and RED ONE comparison test

And just consider this....
Canon do EVERTHING, they make their own sensors in their own plant, they even melt their own glass FFS.
So...they've been cought on the hop as it were, not realising what a hell-of-a-good camera they had. They know now. If the first itteration is this good, what will the socond or third be like? Remember Canon can turn round itterations in 6-9 months. How long has Scarlet been gestating?
Now, I was as mad keen for a 2/3" Scarlet as anyone when it was anounced, and if they had brought it out before the enonomy crashed I'd have bought PDQ. But now? I don't know. If Red want to stay ahead of the game they'd better move FAST, 'cause beleive-you-me Canon will. They know what they've got now, what it can do, and where it could go. I just hope they realise it.
Dave
 
Mattykins said:
Wow, look at that skew, the camera is worthless when you whip it back and forth like you are having a seizure....

What I don't understand is why people are so critical on skew when the camera is being whipped? When will you ever see a camera moved like that? And he whipped the 5D far more than the RED. They were comparable visually. There wasn't any scientifically documented difference. And how could you in an imperfect test?

There is science in there, but it deals with the chipset and not the camera itself. To me, it looked comparable. But again, I stress - when will you ever, ever whip a camera like that?

The fact that this camera is being tested against REDs shows that we are getting close with a low cost option here. Reduser is good for entertainment, but that's about it. Nothing is better than a RED in their eyes. They worship it and the scarlet and the epic. (Though neither of the latter are actual cameras yet).

But really, I like what the MKII can do. If he tried to match the cameras, it would have been a better test.
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Yeah, the whole whip test thing is bizarre to me. On the low budget end, you only see these kind of whips because of poor set-ups or when the director is trying to keep the cost of film low (e.g. whipping the camera back and fourth between two characters talking -- like in a car), or if it's some kind of high-intensity action scene, which, honestly, a lot of low budgie people aren't shooting because they don't have the budget for a (good) action flick. Most low budgies can afford "talkies" and some subtle horror stuff.

But when it's all said and done, if the audience is noticing a camera's "skew", the director/writer/actor/producer obviously are not doing a very good job of maintaining the audience's interest. I've seen quite a few of these hand-held movies like Cloverfield, Quarantine, Zombie Diaries -- heck, even in Blair Witch I didn't care about no friggin skew. Whether it was there or not, I simply didn't notice it because I was involved with watching the movie.

In the end, although I think most people here would be horrified to hear it, most audiences don't care. They want a great story with great acting and, if it fits the bill, great special effects -- and they want it in focus. I don't think a single average moviegoer will ever walk out of a film talking about the shortcomings of the camera. They might not feel the emotional lifts and falls if your camera sits on a bookshelf throughout the movie, but even something shot in SD, if it's done well enough, people will forgive the budget.

To me, the indie shooter should be providing people with something that the studios could never do if they lasted another 10,000 years. You are a lowly group of individuals who your audience doesn't know from adam. That means your content (script, acting, framing) has to be 10 times better than what the best studio can produce right now.

If the script and performances are up to that bar, no one anywhere is going to care if your camera is on the lower end.

If you're shooting commercials and the like, that's a different animal altogether, right?
 
Hmmm…as I’m reading all of your posts I can’t help but to think about some of the recent movies I’ve seen in theaters that were shot on the Red One. I thought they looked absolutely great and if you didn’t know it undistinguishable from film. For me it’s amazing that the camera in this test is the very same type of cam used in those flicks.

With that said, I have no doubt that cameras like the Canon 5D can be used in such a way. Just like those Hollywood directors, if we carefully shot our piece we could avoid any of the ugly issues these cameras can cause. I didn’t notice any anomalies when watching “knowing.” Matter of fact I forgot it was shot on the Red while watching it…and 98% of the people watching it with me could have cared less. I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m excited about the 5D (and cams like it) having these capabilities.
 
The Red footage looks like lame home video.. just goes to show how the camera itself is a very small part of the whole equation of achieving that "film look"
 
Daniel L. said:
To be fair, the 5D was waved around much faster than the RED One. The rolling shutter actually looks about the same on both of them. Just a little less on the RED for sure.

All things considered, the 5D did not do bad. Especially at 1/10th the price.

Just the fact that the 5D is constantly scrutinized next to the RED is a testament to its value.
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Agree
 
Ian-T said:
With that said, I have no doubt that cameras like the Canon 5D can be used in such a way.

I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m excited about the 5D (and cams like it) having these capabilities.
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just waiting for 24p

excited does even begin to describe how I'm feeling about the potential of the MKII.
 
daveswan said:
And just consider this....
Canon do EVERTHING, they make their own sensors in their own plant, they even melt their own glass FFS.
So...they've been cought on the hop as it were, not realising what a hell-of-a-good camera they had. They know now. If the first itteration is this good, what will the socond or third be like? Remember Canon can turn round itterations in 6-9 months. How long has Scarlet been gestating?
Now, I was as mad keen for a 2/3" Scarlet as anyone when it was anounced, and if they had brought it out before the enonomy crashed I'd have bought PDQ. But now? I don't know. If Red want to stay ahead of the game they'd better move FAST, 'cause beleive-you-me Canon will. They know what they've got now, what it can do, and where it could go. I just hope they realise it.
Dave
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Lee Wilson said:
I also found the REDUSER comments quite funny, there seems to be a mild panic at the results, with all the Red owners heaping scorn on how dreadful the 5D is.

The bottom line is that the 5D can come close to matching the RED is many areas (and surpassing it in others like low light) - and if you have just shelled out $30k then that's not what you want to hear.
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CAN I GET A HELL YEAH!!!!!

On a side note:
Weird thing happened to me after seeing the video clip and reading the RedUser comments. I went outside with my pure bred rednose pit-bull who hails from a championship line, whose name is ironically Red, and as I was standing next to my red H1 (you know the big badass Governator model Hummer) my neighbor walks up to me and says "wow what a great dog you've got there. You know I just got my kids a dog from the pound, and boy is he awesome! I mean he's nothing like your Red over there of course, but gosh dangit the kids just love him and he loves the kids."
Patronizingly I smiled and said "that's great." After a moment of uncomfortable silence I added "you know Red here is not only a good family dog but he's also a hell of a protector, nobody f--ks with me when He's around."
My neighbor sheepishly replied "I bet, but you know Mark 2, that's what the kids call him, see they had a gold fish that died, his name was Mark so they..." noticing my growing impatience he continued, "well... you know, anyways... Mark 2 is a surprisingly fierce protector, he hears a sound in the middle of the night and he's on it man!"
"Really, sounds... awesome" I could hardly give a s--t.
Just then his mongrel gayly pounces out like the flea bitten neutered bastard he is and I thought to myself here is my chance to show this backwoods dips--t what a piece of crap his dog is. Red, being highly trained, upon seeing my sophisticated hand signals, fiercely lunged at the half-breed and started to tear him to shreds. My idiot neighbor starts screaming like a girl and grabs a stick and starts hitting Red telling him to stop. Now, I was about to call Red off of the half dead k9's carcass, but seeing my neighbor swing away at my dear Red as if he is some cheap birthday pinata, enraged me. So I did what any self-respecting dog lover would do. I shot him - my neighbor that is, not the dog, of course. Not to kill mind you, just to wound his swinging arm. You see I'm highly trained in close combat firearms and my ParaOrdanance .45 Warthogg I keep concealed on me at all times is a precision weapon and no match for his stick!
Now my neighbor not understanding that I mean him no harm, runs into his garage screaming "HELP! HELP!" I thought he had ran in to call 911, but I remembered he had lost his job and most of his utilities had been cut off. He comes stumbling out on an old ten speed Schwinn of all things. I'm thinking this poor bastard is going to actually try and ride his bike to the hospital with a gun shot wound! So I yelled at him, "Hey bro I'll give you a ride, wait up!"
And as we made our way to the Emergency Room, I could tell he was really impressed with my red H1 Hummer, and he should be, his F-150 that got repo'ed, was a P.O.S.; besides what are neighbors for?
 
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LOL...sounds like a helluvah movie!!!

The Mark ll is definitely a sign.... Head to the store man.
 
Isn't this a problematic comparison since the sensor size is different between the two cameras while using the same lens? With the right glass I think you would have less of a difference. I've seen a lot sharper 5D video.
 
Hey guys. Just wanted to voice my voice...

I was pretty ignorant about the 5D at the time of this test. I have only had it for 2+ weeks so am still getting used to what it can and can't do. Up until then I never really played with the picture settings so didn't know about all the possibilities of contrast/saturation/sharpness (I don't read instruction manuals..) When I shot the first test, I just wanted to see how both cameras compared right out of the box. By default the 5D is on the STANDARD picture setting so I just went with that. It wasn't until I brought it all into post that I realized the big differences. I didn't want to crush the blacks of Red or push it in anyway so I just left it as is. I've been shooting with my Red for a year and half now and you can definitely take it places no other camera at that pricepoint or below can go. This is in regards to RAW manipulation which is quite awesome and something I'll never want to give up. Being able to scoop out detail from burnt highlights is amazing. But....... Picture for picture? The 5D realllly holds its own. I was very, very impressed. I think it's kinda funny all the fanboyism surrounding the Red cam. I'm a fan boy but when it comes down to it, it's all about the picture. We have to stay objective about this because its the only way to push companies to make better gear. Red has done a lot for filmmakers. They've advanced my own career and many others and I'm forever in debt to them for that but as a filmmaker, I want something lower cost. I want big picture and low cost like the 5D and I know Red can do it. Maybe not. As far as the SKEW test I did, the reason why the 5D was moving faster was because it's a super light camera. When you whip the Red around like that, inertia will get you down. Once again, I wasn't trying to be scientific, I was just trying to compare them for my own purposes. SKEW is a big issue. You might not be whipping your camera around like that in every scene of your movie but try locking your camera down and shooting some passing traffic or someone running by the frame. You'll see SKEW and yes Red is way better in that dept.
 
squig said:
lmao

Not to mention riding with a pit bull chasing him

So when do you start shooting?
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As soon as I find a rednose pit and a H1 Hummer I can paint red. You wanna play the neighbor? It'll be a buddy film, something like my Eddie Murphy to your Nick Nolte :)
 
Johnny Cola said:
As soon as I find a rednose pit and a H1 Hummer I can paint red. You wanna play the neighbor? It'll be a buddy film, something like my Eddie Murphy to your Nick Nolte :)
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depends whether you are shooting blanks

IMO the key to a good urban narrative is keeping it real. You had me going right up until you shot the guy.
 
squig said:
depends whether you are shooting blanks

IMO the key to a good urban narrative is keeping it real. You had me going right up until you shot the guy.
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Unfortunately that's pretty real, I know people that will shoot you if you hit thier dogs LOL
 
OK, to be fair you must say that the MK II basic adjustments are much to contrasty and saturated. I saved a few adjustments on my MK II, which are more similar to the RED clips as yours. Lower the contrast, no additional sharpness, a little bit less saturation and its looking much more like "film", if its the big saviour anyway.
I have never had a Camera before, what is so close to "Film"- look as the Canon MK II (for this money), I can use so many nice lenses from the second hand market, and they are a very important part of your look.
Its time to make a good little movie with my stuff.
Benn
 
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