5000 budget, field kit

M

MartyMcfly

New member
Howdy,

I am in the process in gathering ideas to build a field kit with a $5000 budget. Most of my gigs are going to be corporate 2 camera shoots.

I would like to get 2 wireless/lavs as well.

Ideas:

Used Sound Devices 442
Recorder? suggestions
Rode NTG 2 or 3
Field bag
cables
boom pole, shock mount, zeppelin, dead cat, etc

I will keep reading in the forum for ideas but please feel free to offer suggestions.

Thanks!
 
No boom op, that would most likely be me. I am thinking of other examples of possible gigs. Corporate, PSA's,

Thoughts on the Sennheiser G3 wireless instead of Lectrosonics?
 
I have had very good results from my G3s (I now have 3). I carry two channels As and a channel B. I use them with Tram TR-50 and Oscar Soundtech mics. If you're doing sitdown interviews, and you're behind one of the cameras, you may want to consider a boom holder for a C-stand. Granted, it won't provide the boom coverage you'd get from a boom op, but by running the lavs, and boom into separate channels of a mult-track recorder (I use the Tascam DR-680), you'll have plenty of options come edit time. While it's not quite as good as the SD 442, you may want to consider the PSC Promix 6. There are times when I wish I had enough mixer channels for 4 lavs and a boom. There is the SD 552 but that additional channel is gonna cost some $$$.
 
There's always this handy gadget (RX Emergency) to add another wireless channel to your SD442, that way you could use 4xwireless and boom:

http://www.reddingaudio.com/cable-techniques-rx-emergency.php\

Looks like it goes for around $179.


gpforet said:
I have had very good results from my G3s (I now have 3). I carry two channels As and a channel B. I use them with Tram TR-50 and Oscar Soundtech mics. If you're doing sitdown interviews, and you're behind one of the cameras, you may want to consider a boom holder for a C-stand. Granted, it won't provide the boom coverage you'd get from a boom op, but by running the lavs, and boom into separate channels of a mult-track recorder (I use the Tascam DR-680), you'll have plenty of options come edit time. While it's not quite as good as the SD 442, you may want to consider the PSC Promix 6. There are times when I wish I had enough mixer channels for 4 lavs and a boom. There is the SD 552 but that additional channel is gonna cost some $$$.
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Though I would love to have a 442, even a used one will suck your budget dry. Do you really need 4 channels? Just a couple of complete G3 kits is going to be around $1500 and you may want to upgrade the mics, so figure about $2000 for two good G3 wireless kits. The G3s are very decent and Lectros are out of your budget.

Add a bag, harness, basic cables and headphones for $500
Add a SD302 for $1300
Add a Tascam DR680 for $800

We are at $4700 and haven't purchased a pole, shotgun, blimp, or other mics.

If you went with the NTG-3, Rode Blimp, and a medium quality pole, add $1300.

That leaves you at $6000. Don't know if you want a hypercardioid or other mics, so add more for those. Sure is fun spending someone else's money. In all seriousness, if your budget is firm at $5000, you might need to reduce your channels down to two and you could still buy some decent gear.

Grant
 
Leave wireless systems as a last priority. Focus on getting a good mixer, recorder, and mic kit (and bag, cables, and other accessories). Wireless is all well and good, but can be rented for a song (rental companies like trewaudio.com will even ship rentals anywhere). It's not unheard of to rent wireless for paying gigs, and to pass that cost to the client. Once you've had a few paying gigs, you can start to think about purchasing your own wireless systems.
 
Alex H. said:
Leave wireless systems as a last priority. Focus on getting a good mixer, recorder, and mic kit (and bag, cables, and other accessories).
Click to expand...

Am I the only one in here that does a majority of their work direct to camera?
If I was the original poster doing a 2 camera corporate shoot, I would 99% of the time be expected to record in camera. (of course depending on the camera)

Just did a dog food commercial yesterday direct to an F3 as an example. Have a corporate shoot later in the week direct to AF100,
and also a network job direct to an hdx900.

To the OP what cameras do you usually work with?
If it's a "real" camera and not a DSLR personally my recommendation is wait on the recorder and worry about buying
the stuff you need on a daily basis. (mixer, wireless, boom mics, etc)

I would only buy a recorder if there is an actual need for it.
 
I think I'm with Rippie on this, but I'd like to know what sort of "corporate shoots" we're talking about, here, before committing. *grin* Seriously, when I hear "two camera," my first thought goes to two camera operators synced to each other and a sound capture device to make editing a great deal easier, but that's usually a large and complex shoot with actors, grips, gaffer, soundman, cameras, director, script boy/girl, and even the occasional DP. But I believe you said that you generally DIDN'T have a soundman, which would be a near impossibility with the two-camera shoots I have in my head, so I'm guessing that you're talking about something entirely different, here. Is this a two-camera lockdown situation to capture droning execs, allowing you to cut away now and again to a different angle just to keep captive viewers from slitting their wrists too early in the presentation? Or something equivalent to that?

If so, then I definitely think you should capture to camera, assuming you have some sort of modern something with a lens that doesn't sound like a tin can on a bit of string. Syncing in post will be a bit more of a pain, naturally, but probably not horrible. And as has been said, if you capture to camera, you can focus your dollars on mics, booms, mixers, and the like, which will make those dollars stretch much farther.
 
I agree with Ripple but don't forget to run a backup recorder. I never trust audio going into camera at least you will have a backup. I always run backup when running audio into camera whether its hardwired or cam hop. Good luck.

Nicole
 
Hey Nicole, I have a dumb, newbie question for you. Why don't you trust audio going into a camera? Is that inherently more untrustworthy than audio going into a dedicated audio recording device? I've never had a problem, so I suspect there's something that might bite me if I don't know about it.
 
Well I have been doing this for awhile and I have had issues occur. For example what if you aren't able to monitor the camera sound(using a wireless hop) and the camera guy accidentally flips a switch and now no audio is going into the camera. It has happened too me twice and luckily I was recording backup bc if not they would have been getting audio from his on board mic and we all know on run and gun that could be horrible. Also what if it sounds good in your headphones but its getting distorted in the camera. What if your breakway cable all of suddens stops working or is acting weird well if you have that backup recorder you are still able to keep recording especially if you are doing stuff that is run and gun and you don't have time to trouble shoot.

When I wrote that I didn't mean its bad to record to camera I basically meant its a good practice to always have a backup going. You never know what may happen. At least you know you have a good recording(your recorder) to hand over to post if something happens. Think about it.

Nicole
 
Nicole, those are all very easy solutions.
If you are cabled, you always monitor off of camera so you know what you are getting via the return feed in any audio snake/harness.
Another is right at the beginning of the day when I'm plugging in, EVERY single audio knob or switch gets taped down.
NO ONE is able to change something by mistake.

Camera hops are obviously a different story concerning monitoring but there are plenty of solutions to that as well.
I agree that most of the time it wouldnt hurt to roll a backup in a camera hop situation, but
when the OP only has $5000 to spend on audio equipment my own advice is buy things you NEED to use everyday first.

Eventually if they stick with it they will buy backup microphones, backup wireless, and a backup recorder.
 
Rippie said:
Nicole, those are all very easy solutions.
If you are cabled, you always monitor off of camera so you know what you are getting via the return feed in any audio snake/harness.
Another is right at the beginning of the day when I'm plugging in, EVERY single audio knob or switch gets taped down.
NO ONE is able to change something by mistake.

Camera hops are obviously a different story concerning monitoring but there are plenty of solutions to that as well.
I agree that most of the time it wouldnt hurt to roll a backup in a camera hop situation, but
when the OP only has $5000 to spend on audio equipment my own advice is buy things you NEED to use everyday first.

Eventually if they stick with it they will buy backup microphones, backup wireless, and a backup recorder.
Click to expand...

Once again its a suggestion/practice. Yes there are work arounds. I was providing real life situations. Also a backup recorder can be bought for less than 100 bucks or you could even use your primary recorder(if he buys one). I'm not saying go buy this or buy that. I'm making suggestions that could be considered if he likes. At the end of the day each person has to figure out what they need/want and having recommendations/pointers are good for helping. I was offering an opinion not a fact.

Nicole
 
For me, a lot of this really depends on what we're shooting. For ENG/EFP, if it's to a camera that has professional audio interface (and by that I mean XLR ins, manual control, defeatable AGC, level metering, etc.) then recording to camera is a given.

I've done years of broadcast and cable network production... BetaSP and DBeta, primarily, with VariCam and smaller cameras in recent years... and always recorded to camera. Rarely did I take a backup recorder (DAT), though I always had one with me for grabbing sound beds while the DP was grabbing MOS (for travel shows... I'd go walk around outside while they were getting the beauty shots). The ENG snake has a monitor return, and I always kept myself in clear view of the camera's meters (located on the side of the camera... not as easy with the smaller cameras). The photog and I had an understanding that everything having to do with sound on the camera was my territory and that adjusting them was my responsibility, and on the older Sony SP cameras I'd actually put gaff tape over the pots just to be sure. I never had an issue with sound going bad on me due to switches flipped on the camera by another person. We always checked everything before rolling. Of course, these were controlled shoots and we had the time to make sure everything was right. Most corporate work, PSAs, etc. will fall into this category.

If it's fast-paced, or has multiple cameras that are roaming, or is using a camera with no decent audio connections (or crappy pre-amps), a recorder is either a good idea or a must (for cameras with crap audio, like DSLR, it's a must). If there's a wireless camera hop, it's especially important to have backup rolling.

For narrative work the environment is also controlled, but an external recorder is good practice. If you have something that records more than two tracks, and you're dealing with boom and multiple wireless, you'll be able to record everything separately and leave the mix decisions to post. Even with one or two mics, and even if the camera does have pro-level audio, backup is a good idea here.

I will say that you have to know the camera, and know it well. My first experience with RED ONE, I used an external recorder almost exclusively. After reading up on the camera, I learned that the first generation had really sketchy audio despite having balanced connections. It also had meters with no dB indications or other marks. So I went with what I knew would work, and the director was happy with the results (and so was I). I should note that RED fixed the audio card soon after, and offered replacements/upgrades for existing owners. So if you go into a shoot with a camera you've never experienced, do some research.
 
Yes I've never used a recorder too while going into the camera. If the video works, the audio will too. I don't want to compromise my attention by wrangling a recorder and a camera's audio. My break-away cable has a camera monitoring return, so I hear what the camera hears, and I have never ever lost an audio signal going into a camera. That's why I love real video cameras over DSLRs. Though I want a DSLR (still haven't got one!) I consider them toyish still compared to my EX1s. And I get awesome audio going into my EX1 straight - no mixer. Well, mixer when I'm just running audio, but when I one-man-band it on a cooperate shoot, it's lav or boom mic to cam to my headphones. Bam.

That doesn't mean I don't have a recorder or a preamp/mixer though! I just don't use them for most stuff.
 
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