FS7: 5 reasons the URSA Mini is better than the Sony FS7

"Men in Blackmagic" ?

Also if you do try that test you have to basically adjust your ISO to get exposure on the paper since there is obviously no lens iris. It will depend how bright your day is there today. Here in Toronto it's a bit overcast so I was swinging 640ISO.

Some people were putting ND gels on their window to cut the light down and then the white paper on top.

I'd be really curious to see your test results., and to find out if your URSA is a preproduction model or an actual production model for your review purposes?
 
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starcentral said:
So I'm going to hold off on acquiring a mini ursa 4.6K until this magenta corner cast sorts itself out...

Below is white piece of paper over lens mount test.

More details here: http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/v...id=2dec6d729cfc3df6dc893de465bd1495&start=300

file.php
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Ouch! I guess, yet again, this is simple proof that (whatever the item) you get what you pay for.
 
Just having a look at the official BM forums. There are a LOT of unhappy campers out there right now.

And a LOT of people who have suddenly stopped posting in the Sony sub-forum here about how this camera is going to turn the market on its head and have the other manufacturers running for cover.

I've no idea what they are like about listening and responding to criticism but if BM are anything like Sony in that regard and this remains a problem for an extended period of time this will annihilate their camera division.


If I sound gleeful I don't mean to. It is in everyone's interests that solid products come out for less money to force competition. But along with a fair few other people that urged caution when the hyperbole machine was in full swing I will happily and immodestly place my 'I told you so' right here.
 
I am still a believer in you get what you paid for and the same applies in this scenario. While I am super stoked about the BM Ursa Mini 4.6K and would love for it to succeed... I am also afraid of their support and lack of fixing issues through firmware in a timely manner. Some their previous cameras took way too long to get a firmware update and the reports of customer support after the warranty phase basically making the camera a paper weight has me scared a bit to ever purchase a camera from them. While I know Sony has their own problems, I feel like there is a sense of support there for you in case of problems arising. The same is said for Arri, RED, Canon, and Panasonic. While these cameras are usually more expensive, you are usually paying for the professional support and the knowing that your camera, if something happens, will be covered for years to come (until they give up on repairing it because it's too old to keep the parts anymore).

So while this camera might produce Alexa like images, it might not last as long as your Arri Alexa. Most used Alexa cameras out there have over 2-3k hours on them and are still going strong probably for another 2-3k hours. I don't think I see the Blackmagic lasting as long. I would love someone to prove me wrong though!
 
alaskacameradude said:
Really? I'm just curious, do a bunch of TV stations in your area shoot on 4K now? ...
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Well, Hitachi just announced an 8K camera and Canon will demo (again) its own working 8K prototype at the NAB. Which makes me think that the time to argue about 4K was back in 2013.
 
It is very very extremely unlikely BMD will be able to fix the corner cast with firmware. It changes from camera to camera, and from what I've seen even based on exposure. Now add a variety of lenses to the equation, filtering, IR, etc.. and sorry the software to make it happen ain't going to happen inside an URSA.

I'm still hoping for the best because I was next in line on a list to get one, but I can't afford to have $5000 USD tied up in something that has this issue and might not get fixed.

I'm sticking with my F55 and will learn to grade the sh!t out of it.
 
I had pre-ordered the mini but cancelled in September after an email was sent out saying the GPS wasn't going to be able to be added. I figured if they hadn't even finalized hardware then it was way out and more so felt their whole shipping date non-sense was dishonesty rather than over optimism. Glad I did especially after they released the mini 4.6k even though the promised the 4.6k to the previous Ursa owners first. Fine things change but they didn't even have the courtesy to say anything to about it at the time and as far as I know have not said anything yet. Again just seems like they are not an honest company. Yep you get what you pay for, using the cheapest off the shelf parts and the cheapest manufactures is going to have some side effects.
 
DPStewart said:
5 reasons the URSA Mini is better than the Sony FS7

1. The URSA Mini comes from people with Australian accents. I think Australian accents are really freakin’ cool. The Sony FS7 comes from people WITHOUT Australian accents. That’s like seriously nowhere near as cool. Like, what were they thinking? Even the GPS Mapper on my iPhone has an Australian accent. Lame.

2. The URSA Mini has a symmetrical shape to it. The FS7 has like, weird curved out parts at the back that aren’t even the same on both sides. How am I supposed to look at that without getting all weirded out? It’s like “don’t they even know how to make a square where they come from?”

3. The URSA Mini has a flip-out screen on the side where normal people can look at it. The FS7 screen is at the top and in all the Sony promo shots there’s a guy looking down on it from above. So what – this camera is only supposed to be for really tall people? That’s totally discriminatory. Why is Sony trying to appeal to heightists? That’s like really not cool Sony. So you’re telling me I’m too short? Is that it? Like shorter people don’t have rights to use a video camera too? Not cool.

4. The URSA Mini can shoot in ProRes. The FS7 uses one of those dumb compressed codecs called XAVC. As if making it sound tough by putting an X in front of the regular old AVC thing is going to make us forget it’s just a compressed codec – nothing at all like ProRes. ProRes RULES.

5. Yo! - FS7, what’s with that long extender-handle on the right side? That thing looks like the part of a male elephant that he uses to do sexy stuff to a female elephant. And you totally just copied it right from the URSA Mini anyway. If you can’t think up anything original on your own and have to go around copying other people’s ideas then you shouldn’t get to win any of these online contests. Go home Sony FS7!

I had eleven more reasons the URSA Mini is better than the Sony FS7 but I figured I could keep it just to the really important ones because… well, because they speak for themselves obviously.
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Unlike the magenta-gate, the main reasons to choose BM still stand. I hope they can fix it, I like the company and the camera (if I bought one) should match perfect with my Rode microphones.
 
I wonder what camera BMD are going to announce at NAB?

The Ursa Mini looks like at good match for Xeen lenses should balance each other out nicely.
 
All of the other cameras have various issues that they never fixed. Most likely won't fix this one. (They are great with firmware updates, but maybe some things just can't be fixed.)

Regardless, they aren't going anywhere and will continue to be in the camera business and make cameras with issues and quirks because there are more people that are buying their cameras than there are that are not.
 
I'm sure they can fix it. On BMCuser it seems like certain cameras are total fine while others are experiencing the issue. Probably a QC issue.

I keep seeing mentions of Sony FS7 magenta issues both here and on BMC. Since I've never used Custom I never ran into it. The only time I have magenta issues is if I use LC709a and that only on certain shots. Now that I monitor and bake in (when required to) BertLUT Arri-Look, I have ZERO issues with magenta in CineEI. Still have not used Custom or any other profile so I can't say for those.

BertLUT entirely eliminates the Magenta issue and makes the image very natural looking.
 
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gene_can_sing said:
Now that I monitor and bake in (when required to) BertLUT Arri-Look, I have ZERO issues with magenta in CineEI. Still have not used Custom or any other profile so I can't say for those.
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I've had the same experience.

An overall tint can be adjusted in post but having tints in corners is a much harder task.
 
Curious about what causes it though, i think Dennis is along the right lines with reflections internal on the lens mount and perhaps they're IR reflections too. Thinking again about the light incident on the sensor doesn't make sense in this case because it's an EF mount and the lenses are more telecentric, they're further from the sensor and the light coming out the back is straighter than something like an emount.

As for you get what you pay for, that's true. But if you're looking for a RAW camera with those specs and nothing else, it's a great bargain. Assuming something can be done about this cast if indeed it is all over the shop. There are whole chunks of other cameras which are designed for different uses, ENG and so on, that some people don't need.

The other stuff on BMCuser i've seen (FPN for example) appears to be more to do with people not knowing how to use their cameras than any problem.

But it's fun to watch...

cheers
Paul
 
It's rather ironic that this group is hammering the magenta cast of the Ursa as it was the magenta cast of the early FS7 release that put me off the camera for well over a year.

Without BMD I don't think the FS7 would've happened at its price point. No Fs7 and I'd be looking at the URSA without any shadow of a doubt.
 
Nirv said:
It's rather ironic that this group is hammering the magenta cast of the Ursa as it was the magenta cast of the early FS7 release that put me off the camera for well over a year.

Without BMD I don't think the FS7 would've happened at its price point. No Fs7 and I'd be looking at the URSA without any shadow of a doubt.
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It was us early adopters here that complained loudly to Sony and got them to fix the magenta issue via firmware. Not sure this BMC issue will be so easy to fix.

Also, the price point of the FS7 is designed to take sales from more expensive cameras, not cheaper ones. It's classic Japanese economics.
 
Is holding a bit of paper over the bare lens mount a usual test? I've never heard of it before.

Does the Ursa produce a magenta vignette with a lens on it?
 
Nirv said:
It's rather ironic that this group is hammering the magenta cast of the Ursa as it was the magenta cast of the early FS7 release that put me off the camera for well over a year.

Without BMD I don't think the FS7 would've happened at its price point. No Fs7 and I'd be looking at the URSA without any shadow of a doubt.
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It was a white balance related issue that only showed under certain conditions and was fixed about a year ago. The BM issue appears to be one of IR contamination which is either a sensor flaw or a build flaw.

The FS7 was the C300 killer and has nothing to do with Blackmagic. Nobody involved in making cameras cares what BM is doing because they haven't made a single 'must have' camera yet and haven't ever eaten into their market share in any meaningful way. and the only people they might ever have taken a sale away from is from 5D mk3s or similar.
 
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Ben Scott said:
The BM issue appears to be one of IR contamination which is either a sensor flaw or a build flaw.
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Can you elucidate?

How is it an IR issue? Wouldn't that be solved with an IRND on a lens? What sort of build issue would cause such a magenta vignette?
 
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