FS7: 5 reasons the URSA Mini is better than the Sony FS7

Nirv said:
In defence of Sony,

I thought the very wacky Sense8 looked stunning from the F55.

https://vimeo.com/131489547

I think this FS 7 snow video looks stunning and a whole lot better than the Ursa snow vid above.

https://vimeo.com/147440980

Plenty of mojo IMHO.
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Most, if not all of the NetFlix 4K TV series are shot with the F55 but also in RAW from what I've read in the CineAlta magazines. This speaks to some of the greatness we see in other NetFlix 4K shows like Vinyl, Marco Polo, Daredevil, Sense8.. and more.

From there the colouring is done by companies like Technicolor and the efforts are made by teams of colorists and units.

Here's a case study from Technicolor on Sense8, one of the most complex projects they say they have worked on.

http://www.technicolor.com/sites/de...oc_download/20150608_sense8_case_study_v2.pdf
 
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starcentral said:
Most, if not all of the NetFlix 4K TV series are shot with the F55 but also in RAW from what I've read in the CineAlta magazines. This speaks to some of the greatness we see in other NetFlix 4K shows like Vinyl, Marco Polo, Daredevil, Sense8.. and more.

From there the colouring is done by companies like Technicolor and the efforts are made by teams of colorists and units.

Here's a case study from Technicolor, one of the most complex projects they say they have worked on.

http://www.technicolor.com/sites/de...oc_download/20150608_sense8_case_study_v2.pdf
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No that i'm trying to revive TheGreatThread(tm) but how do you compare the RAW DNGs from the URSA to SonyRAW? Can you open SonyRAW with Resolve?

Because i'd have thought that your F55 would still be heaps better than the Ursa...

cheers
Paul
 
Yes Sony RAW opens in Davinci, I think as of version 10.

Sony RAW is flexible, deep, nice, clean. But clinical, not organic, not an F35 out of the box. You still have to work at it later. etc.. tricks, LUTs, advil, whiskey, etc..

I'm hoping to get a 4.6k as soon as I can find one, it's out of stock everywhere. Then I will do some side by side tests. F35 is still on my radar, but size, weight, etc.. makes me think 4.6K is the way to go, even if some compromise. I like the image #1.
 
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Just got an UM 4.6K for a week's evaluation and review. Still awaiting some 256gb cards later in the day so could only shoot with my only CFast 2 card in house (just 64gb). Will be able to do more once I've got larger cards. Initial thoughts-- wow. Beautiful organic colors that don't take a lot of work in Resolve. I just shot some 3:1 RAW (7 minutes on a 64gb card) @24p handheld outdoors. While through my own idiotic user error I overexposed by a couple of stops, I was surprised that I could pull that back in Resolve. I'll have some clips once I get the larger cards and arrange more interesting shoots than solar-panel installers next door.

Ned Soltz
 
You lucky guy!

Ned what if we were to stage a break in, I'll drive down from Canada, hit you over the head (pretend) then take camera and flee the country? Er, um never mind.

From that last video link I posted you can overexpose by 4 stop and it'll still look great, well, RAW is just kind of like that all together. So long as you're not clipped. Once you're clipped, you're clipped.
 
agree, something does look wonky with color. Maybe xeen lens, maybe OLPF used on Dragon, or camera setting. But even still just a tweak in post.

Sony and URSA seem to skew to magenta. Someone on BMCUSER had suggested that the green from the Xeen cancelled out with the magenta from the URSA.

Could be.
 
Dennis,
I mentioned the XEENs have a green tint, similar to the Rokinon Cine DS series. Since they were outside, I am almost positive he probably used heavy ND filtration thus causing some nasty IR pollution which leans magenta if I am not mistaken. So the green in the XEENs gives you a nicer balanced image. I have a set of them and they work nicely with the magenta heavy FS7. I notice when I use Bert's FS7 LUT the footage needs a tad bit of magenta to bring it back to where I need it. Nothing too difficult to fix!

I would say that test was a pretty bad example since you are HARDLY ever delivering a RAW shot to a client. I would want to see some basic changes like levels, contrast, and color. After that, I think you would start to see the cameras become similar.

Also, the lighting outside was just straight cloudy weather with nothing added to it. I am still a believer in the light will make or break your shot. I think some basic contrast in lighting added to the scene would have been nice to see to compare these cameras.

I hope they redo the test. I think people just run out and shoot whatever is most convenient and get sloppy. I would like to see a well controlled test between these three cameras. Similar to John Brawley's test with the Alexa vs. Mini 4.6K. I learned a great deal comparing both sets of shots in Da Vinci. The BMD Ursa Mini is a very capable camera but I am not a big fan of the IR Pollution and other quirks like no built-in ND's and having to use V-Mount batteries instead of smaller BP-U batteries like on the FS7. Until then, I am holding onto my FS7 until I see something else I like... like the Panasonic Varicam LT which intrigues me.
 
Looks like the wrong OLPF setting was used for the wrong OLPF on the Dragon in that test.

I've only had a push towards green on MX sensors when using Tiffen IRNDs or similar earlier generation ones. Dragon it's even less pronounced unless you don't set the camera properly.
 
Ryan actually stated that this test was quick n dirty and the " talent" moved of his mark for the dragon exposure test. Having said that what I was more impressed with the cost to performance ratio of cameras , pretty remarkable we've come so far for such a huge price difference.

The weakness of the mini Ursa IMO. ( as long they fix their QC ) Is its huge data footprint if going raw for long form projects. Yes HD's are cheap but processing power to run a long form project isn't. Like all things it can be overcome with careful planning but at least go into it with your eyes open. Obviously this will not be a problem if you are using a DI house ( though it will cost in which case would you be using this camera ? ) but a couple guys in a room pumping out DPX/ QuickTime/ h264 deliverables, another thing entirely.

PS if you look at the star charts at the start of the clip you can see the magenta shift in the Ursa mini.
 
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i am in the market for a camera again and have to say it is a good time to buy....i used to own a red epic and i am so happy i don't have to go that high again...
i also owned a FS7 and looking at everything right now, i might go that way again....NAB is around the corner and Sony is supposed to show a couple of things but i am not sure i can wait for anything to actually hit the market.....the ursa 4.6 looks pretty great but i don't see anything earth shattering and the data is a pain....i won't buy red again so that pretty much means Sony for me....
an upgraded FS7 with a newer sensor, AF like the 6300, IBIS, with an upgrade (firmware) path to the planned/rumored internal compressed sony raw at 10 or 12000 for the body would be the perfect camera for me....
 
I vowed I wouldn't buy Red again and jumped to Sony and now I'm vowing I wouldn't buy Sony again and am looking at alternatives!

Scarlet and Varicam LT looking most interesting so far.
 
Ben Scott said:
I vowed I wouldn't buy Red again and jumped to Sony and now I'm vowing I wouldn't buy Sony again and am looking at alternatives!

Scarlet and Varicam LT looking most interesting so far.
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i agree about the varicam.....everything i have seen looks pretty amazing....
i left the red world mostly because of dragon and i don't see anything in the scarlet that would bring me back....
the reason i keep coming back to sony is that i am buying more and more sony stuff.....the A7RII is (while not perfect) a pretty insane camera....that little 6300 looks really promising....and the e mount lets me use anything from old russian lenses to leica to nikon to canon....but there i keep getting more and more sony lenses as well....i love the 28-135...the 16-35/f4 is the best all around option in that range IMO, the 28, 35 and 55 are incredible, the new 85 G 1.4 might just be the last 85 i will ever buy (haha)....and they keep coming out with more lenses every couple of months....nobody can compete with that....
i even bought a little sony mic for the a7rII and it rocks....super easy to use and it is better then all the rode/sennheiser/...dslr mics....and it was cheaper....
 
Dennis-- Just make a quick drive (quick unless the 401 and the border crossing is backed up) to NJ and we can play with the Ursa 4.6K!

Ned
 
I'd love to and thanks for the invite, but unfortunately I let me passport expire. Need to get that sorted out one day soon!

Feel free to send any frames along my way to play with. :happy:
 
I'll vouch for you at the border. You don't need no stinkin' passport.

I'll post some frames when I manage to shoot something worth posting.

Ned
 
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