C300: 4K or UHD

[Eric Coughlin]

When a client asks for 4K, do you ask them to clarify if they want 4K or UHD?

Whenever I ask for clarification, they often say 4K, simply because that's what they've heard of and they mistakenly think UHD is just HD (and get practically offended by my suggestion of filming in UHD). But I often feel like UHD would better serve their project which is generally in 16:9, as it's one less post step, and often makes framing easier while filming.

So, I'm tempted to just film UHD for clients who ask for 4K, but don't have the technical knowledge to know the difference, but am not sure that is the best route to go.

How do you all handle 4K vs UHD, along with dealing with clients with this?

 

[Run&Gun]

I always ask if they want/mean "true 4K"(DCI 4K) or UHD. Out of all the "4K" shoots I've done, only one client wanted UHD(a German client), everyone else I've shot for here in the US has wanted "true 4K"(DCI 4K), and it's mostly just for reframing purposes.

It's kind of like "do you want 24P or 60P?" all over again.

 

[puredrifting]

None of our clients would know the difference or care.

 

[jm.gardiner]

Surely someone on the client side knows what aspect ratio they want to finish in. That being said, aspect ratios can be oddly tricky these days. On the past couple of months I've done: 16x9, 17x9, 2.35:1, 1x1, 4x3

Generally TV or documentary work that I do is HD or UHD at 16x9. And for the bigger networks we're sometimes framing for 4x3 safe.

For narrative content I'll generally push for a wider aspect ratio, sometimes the 17x9 DCI aspect ratio is the happy medium and at least on the C300mkii it gives you a little more width out of the glass.

 

[roxics]

Honestly I'm always amazed at how little people understand the concept of aspect ratios. Like people delivering vertical video and wondering why it doesn't fill the screen. Blows my mind every time. I feel like I'm dealing with that character in the movie Idiocracy who is taking the IQ test and trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
For clients like this I don't even ask. I just ask where they plan to display the video, which is 99.99% of the time youtube or vimeo or just some presentation at a trade show or meeting. In which case 16:9 is what they need.

 

[rob norton]

I'm indifferent as ive never had a specific resolution request. I'd like to know how you handle the situation. I'm assuming you go 4K slightly wider just to cover your bases? Other than ratio, what do you feel the benefits of shooting UHD vs 4K are?

 

[drummondb]

I'd always shoot 4K or 2K if possible, even if the destination is going to be 16:9. Why throw the pixels away on the sides when it is just a few clicks to fix in post?

Also, the 2:1 aspect ratio seems the flavor of the moment for "cinematic" presentations on television. Shooting full 4K or 2K allows you to crop to 2:1 while throwing away slightly less resolution. Not a big deal, but it's a nice-to-have for me.

 

[guru]

I think that mentioning more 4k formats just complicate things. Almost no one will know or care if it's UHD or DCI, and those who know what they want will just ask..

 

[Cary Knoop]

Shooting full 4K or 2K allows you to crop to 2:1 while throwing away slightly less resolution.

How would that be helpful on a UHD device?

 

[klk]

UHD unless the client specifically asks for 4K. I also shoot my own Wide DR color profile unless client specifically asks for LOG as some of the final products have looked incredibly bad to my eyes. Many producers I work with want to keep post costs to a minimum.

 

[mizzar]

I shoot corporate work in a big city and always ask the producer or client if they want “full 4K DCI or 16:9 UHD.” If they don’t know, I explain it. If they still aren’t sure, I’ll shoot DCI unless they update me with a UHD request because I can always crop to UHD later. During this conversation I also ask about Log vs Rec709.

 

[Cary Knoop]

Seems to me you always want to confirm with the client what you are going to deliver:

- Resolution (4K, UHD, HD etc)
- Aspect ratio (16:9, 2:1, Anamorphic modes, etc)
- Bitdepth (8, 10 , 12, etc)
- Color Subsampling/RAW (RAW, 4:4:4, 4:2:2, 4:2:0)
- Codec (H.264, H265, ProRes, DNxHx, etc)
- Codec options (Bitrate, All-Intra, CABAC etc)
- Gamma and gamut (Gamma 2.4, Rec.709, V-Log, HDR10 etc)

If they are truly not interested in the details, they can always just "sign at the dotted line", but this way you cannot later be held responsible for not being diligent.

 

[drummondb]

How would that be helpful on a UHD device?

Cropping to 2:1 is the look of the moment for "cinematic" visuals on television (Stranger Things, Broadchurch, Star Trek Discovery).

Sometimes it is a compromise extraction from scope lenses (Broadchurch), and sometimes it's just there to look slightly cinemascope without actually shooting scope or throwing away so many pixels to black bars.

 

[Cary Knoop]

Cropping to 2:1 is the look of the moment for "cinematic" visuals on television (Stranger Things, Broadchurch, Star Trek Discovery).

Sometimes it is a compromise extraction from scope lenses (Broadchurch), and sometimes it's just there to look slightly cinemascope without actually shooting scope or throwing away so many pixels to black bars.

I get that but how does using 4K "throws away less resolution" compared to UHD?

 

[Michel]

I get that but how does using 4K "throws away less resolution" compared to UHD?

because you'll have 256 more lines of vertical resolution to start with and you'll end up cropping around 100 lines less horizontal resolution.
in 4k you start with 4096x2160 when cropped to 2:1(18:9) you end up with 4096x2048 when cropped to 21:9 it's 4096x1755
in uhd you start with 3840x2160 when cropped to 2:1(18:9) you end up with 3840x1920 when cropped to 21:9 it's 3840x1645

 

[Cary Knoop]

because you'll have 256 more lines of vertical resolution to start with and you'll end up cropping around 100 lines less horizontal resolution.
in 4k you start with 4096x2160 when cropped to 2:1(18:9) you end up with 4096x2048 when cropped to 21:9 it's 4096x1755
in uhd you start with 3840x2160 when cropped to 2:1(18:9) you end up with 3840x1920 when cropped to 21:9 it's 3840x1645

That is all nice but the 4K "extra" resolution is not of any use if you render the result to a UHD container because you need to crop the sides anyway.