4k bmpcc

I just didnt like the example footage that was shown in this thread... regardless of what it might be able to do.

They really should make an effort to make sure their own staged example footage gets way more attention than random people from NAB.

But for vlogger use... sure... but then again, why not an iPhone with a mic add on?
 
morgan_moore said:
Being a "mechanical designer" how can you not look at this dogs breakfast and laugh.

I would ask simple design questions/specs

Can one hold and focus in a stable manner (no)

Can one monitor in the sun or off angle (no)

Do any accessory leads foul the hands or a gimbal or get broken when you put it on a bag? (All of them)

Can one get correct exposure in daylight (no)

The form runs entirely contrary to the function.
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...and just what'd all those bmpcc v1 owners do ...or thousands of other camera owners w/o articulating lcd , or manual focusers? My only real gripe is I would have liked to see ibis...but I'll put it on a gimble or a benro. There was probably a real reason why it didn't have it. Maybe the design team, when it's released will enlighten us. Otherwise all of you armchair critics can have a field day...and spend double for a gh5s. Oh...it doesn't have ibis either !
 
No armchair here.
I won't get a gh5 - I have a gh4 and it is horrid - I have a Bm micro that is ok.

I doubt Bm have an ibis (whatever that is? A method to make the camera unresponsive to your fine movements?) capability - you can't buy ibis on aliababa

I love BM but don't like the shape of this one.
 
well I would have preferred a design based on the ikonoscop....or a minima. Can't have everything. The bm4k is obviously designed to have loupes mounted to it's fhd lcd. Maybe the grid already fits.....and they'll be some nice small half cages. I wish olympus would reinvent it's 12-50mm pz ...let's say f2.8-4. However all said and done....and noting that we're trapped inside the dslr paradigm ....the camera is like a second best lover. But the first lover is always trapped inside our imagination.
 
filmguy123 said:
I'm actually really curious about this, too. The big thing I always hear is "but the sensor size is smaller in a phone". My understanding here is limited, but this just doesn't make sense to me. Isn't it not about the sensor size, but rather the # of pixels being processed - which should be about equivalent (actually, less as I understand since the iPhone cameras have more pixels than the BMD cam?).

Theories are economies of scale and resources to harness power of latest ARM chips in the most efficient manner possible, regarding the entire chip and processing design... but i'm reaching past my knowledge here...

I would love a great explanation of why iPhone X can process 240fps 4K video without a hitch, among everything else is doing, on that sexy display, on a smaller battery, in a tiny form factor... and sensor size just doesn't make sense to me.

Someone.. help us understand!
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I'm no engineer myself but we have traditionally seen smaller sensors be able to do more. m43 had unlimited HD first without overheating, m43 had 4k first, 1/3" and 1/4" achieved HD and 4k first. Well except for the first HD camera I used which was the F900 Cinealta with a 2/3" sensor. For the most part however it is the smaller sensors that have been able to push us into new territory. Not entirely sure how the heck Sony manages 4k video on a FF sensor but kudos to them for pulling it off.

The iPhone also has a massive amount of processing greater than the edit systems some of us used to use. It has a GPU highly optimized for accelerated h.264 encoding/decoding. That helps a ton and the CPU doesn't really work very hard at all on the iPhone because of the GPU. GPU acceleration is where its at today.
 
Morgan, rent/borrow/try the GH5S for a day. Set NR and sharp to -5. Don't use native electronic glass - anything manual or adapted. Shoot in 10-bit vlog. You might change your mind. Same sensor as BMPCC4K.
 
Samuel/Thomas, this is helpful. The codec explanation does make some good sense.

And true, we have seen the smaller sensors, even with similar resolution, deliver first. Any ideas? I didn't think the sensor would get any warmer, or the hardware - the pixel/codec processing should be consistent, no? Are we sure this is hardware based, or is it possible it's done first as a distinguishing feature (ie we have a small sensor... buutttt... check out our slow motion!)
 
filmguy123 said:
Morgan, rent/borrow/try the GH5S for a day. Set NR and sharp to -5. Don't use native electronic glass - anything manual or adapted. Shoot in 10-bit vlog. You might change your mind. Same sensor as BMPCC4K.
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Where is the source for this? I keep hearing that the Pocket 4K is the same Panasonic sensor but it's highly unlikely as Panasonic makes their sensors and don't believe they sell them.
 
Erik Naso said:
Where is the source for this? I keep hearing that the Pocket 4K is the same Panasonic sensor but it's highly unlikely as Panasonic makes their sensors and don't believe they sell them.
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Pretty sure they haven't made a camera sensor for the GH cameras since the GH2.
 
Erik Naso said:
Where is the source for this?
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You're right, this has never been officially confirmed. Just logic from the reported specs and capabilities of the sensor. It's extremely likely it is the same sony sensor and extremely unlikely these are custom in house Panasonic or BMD developed sensors that just happen to near-perfect match the specs and capabilities of the same Sony sensor. But, you are correct, we do not know for sure.

Though I'd bet on it without losing sleep, and evidently, many others familiar would as well.
 
Erik Naso said:
Where is the source for this? I keep hearing that the Pocket 4K is the same Panasonic sensor but it's highly unlikely as Panasonic makes their sensors and don't believe they sell them.
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I've seen it mentioned several times that both cameras use sensors made by Sony, and that these sensors are very similar, if not identical. Given that camera electronics have a big effect on the final image, I think all of this speculation is meaningless until we can compare actual footage from both cameras. ( I'm expecting small differences, rather than big differences between these two )
 
filmguy123 said:
Morgan, rent/borrow/try the GH5S for a day. Set NR and sharp to -5. Don't use native electronic glass - anything manual or adapted. Shoot in 10-bit vlog. You might change your mind. Same sensor as BMPCC4K.
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(I was talking physical form)

The reason I don't like the gh cams is that the bodies are wide and the cables stick out the side - it is to me horrible design ..replicated worse on the new pocket.

The gh menu is putrid and another off putter. Bm might be a little better - the menus are ok but I still can't work the micro intuitively

Really all of these cameras are good chips in boxes designed by interns who never took a single professional shot.

I'm pretty convinced by the file on all these cameras
 
It's true, but there are solutions (not saying you'd be interested in them! lol). But, cages with locking pins, and/or cheap right angle cable adapters. BM UI is great. GH5 improved the GH4 menu a lot, especially if you setup the GH5/GH5S "My Menu" and customize the Fn buttons and C preset dial wheel.
 
Is there any advantage to the shape and size of the new Blackmagic Pocket 4K over something like this (Sony PXW-Z90):

sony_pxw_z90.jpg

Blackmagic has made cameras in every shape and size besides this, yet this is still my ideal. Panasonic could have made the GH5-S in this shape and size too, since they said they made it for video people.

I'm not even sure still-photographers prefer the SLR shape. Isn't it a holdover from 35mm cameras, which had to be shaped that way because of the way you spooled film from one side to the other? Anyway many pro photographers used Mamiya and Hasselblad cameras that were shaped like my ideal. So maybe all cameras should be shaped more like this, now that we're free from the design constraints of a roll of film.

An advantage of this body style is you can attach a decently sized battery. I think Blackmagic should standardize on Sony NP batteries. The other advantage is that I just think it's more comfortable to hold your hand that way when shooting, supporting the camera by your palm.
 
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morgan_moore said:
it is to me horrible design ..replicated worse on the new pocket.

The gh menu is putrid and another off putter. Bm might be a little better - the menus are ok but I still can't work the micro intuitively

Really all of these cameras are good chips in boxes designed by interns who never took a single professional shot.
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Non-professional pocketable putrid off-putters. :)
 
morgan_moore said:
Really all of these cameras are good chips in boxes designed by interns who never took a single professional shot.
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Well, as you say, they're chips in boxes. They're not professional cameras. People may make a living shooting on them, but it is out of compromise, not preference.
 
Run&Gun said:
Well stated.
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considering the iq is on par, when you can get 95-98% of the quality in a small handfriendly "box" even if I owned a rigged arri, I'd choose to shoot with a camera like the bmpcc4k. A director like sodenburgh is claiming he'll never use anything but an iphone again. Refer to my cocteau quote.
 
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