4-cam comparison -- initial response

Benton said:
Ice-
at least you are on the top 10
...I probably wont see mine until April.
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It is hard not to get really frustrated with Panasonic on this. I have purchased my XL1, my DVX100 and the XL2 all as a pre-order. Never had to wait this long past the release date to receive it and always had much more information to hold me over. I know Jarred is frustrated at us all "blaming" Panasonic on this but in truth they are losing credibility. I have never been so in the dark as to the status of such a large ticket item. Compared to my dealings with Canon pre-orders I was always kept informed and never waited this long for them.

I understand that this is a very in demand camera and I could accept that as a reason if the people high on the list were getting theirs and the people on lower part of the list were waiting. But as of now I think only the no. 1 person on EVS list has actually received their camera. The other 130+ are really waiting around.

I have refrained from getting into any of these things but I guess I am getting frustrated. I will peacefully refrain from anything other than saying I am getting impatient. Maybe Panasonic isn't to blame but when compared to my experiences purchasing other cameras on pre-order I have never seen this type of service (or lack of). I just really hope they surprise us all and hit us with a gigantic shipment real soon that puts a huge dent in the list. That would really be a redeeming statement. And then my HVX book won;t have to just be a warm-up waiting for the real deal to arrive.

Peace all.

Sorry for the semi-rant.
 
redindian said:
Will the accompanying DVD contain tutorials with u explaining & showing stuff or is it a vehicle to carry demos footage & files.
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I haven't decided on the DVD contents yet. If you go by the DVX DVD example, it will primarily be tutorials and demonstrations.
 
mmm said:
The difference with that level of compression is all but undetectable, even by an audiophile
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It's not that simple. 4:1 compressed audio on a mono track with on demanding material (simple dialogue in a quiet room/stage - sure, with quality mics and preamps, good results can be had.

However, full range stereo track, especially with complex high frequency, 4:1 compressed audio is noticable even to non-audiophiles. 8:1 compressed very much so.

Audio is just like video - the material being recorded vastly affects the usuability. I have my CD collection currently ripped to 192 kb/s variable bit-rate two pass WMA. It's acceptable standin for lossless or uncompressed on most stuff, probably for most dialogue. But it does fall apart on about 10% of stuff in my library - mostly noticably in treble range.

Plus, just like anything else, when you shoot compressed audio, you must uncompress for all processing and have to recompress to write out to tape. Not the best possible world. Why step back to lower audio after years of DV 48Khz16-bit uncompressed?
 
Barry,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the HVX and other cameras.

I'm sure this has been asked, but in case I missed it, when will the technical comparison test material be available?

Steve
 
icicle22 said:
Never had to wait this long past the release date to receive it and always had much more information to hold me over. I know Jarred is frustrated at us all "blaming" Panasonic on this but in truth they are losing credibility. I have never been so in the dark as to the status of such a large ticket item. Compared to my dealings with Canon pre-orders I was always kept informed and never waited this long for them.
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The release date was the 29th of December so it is now only 19 days since it release. I know that seems reaalllly long to you, but frankly that is barely enough time to build a camera, box it up and ship it to the US. We will be shipping more cameras this week. ;-) And even more next week. ;-)

Actually if you ordered the DVX, at the same time coming into its delivery, then you would have been experienced the same delays. This whole delivery schedule is about the same numbers and quantities. The difference is that on this camera, more people are familiar with what it can do and thus the anticipation is higher. At the birth of the DVX, people were dissing the whole 24P idea.

Best,

Jan
 
Hi Barry,

Alright! Er, Wow. Thanks very much! I haven't had a chance to get beyond the first para - just got home and am leaving again to take my little ladies to ballet lessons, but I'll print the thread out to read there. Looking forward to catch up with the entire thread, as well. Later...

Best regards,

David
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
The release date was the 29th of December so it is now only 19 days since it release. I know that seems reaalllly long to you, but frankly that is barely enough time to build a camera, box it up and ship it to the US. We will be shipping more cameras this week. ;-) And even more next week. ;-)

Actually if you ordered the DVX, at the same time coming into its delivery, then you would have been experienced the same delays. This whole delivery schedule is about the same numbers and quantities. The difference is that on this camera, more people are familiar with what it can do and thus the anticipation is higher. At the birth of the DVX, people were dissing the whole 24P idea.

Best,

Jan
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Jan,
thanks for the reply. I am sorry if I sounded harsh but when ordering the camera it was slated for a 4th quarter of 2005. Then it got confirmed on December 29th which was ok. Then only 1-2 trickled in here and there. And 16 days later it seemed nobody knew anything about when more would come or if it would be 1-2 to each dealer again.

I know it takes time to build the cameras....the frustration comes from my experience with other cameras upon release: they seemed tofill the pipeline rather quickly upon the release date. Including the DVX. I was in the top 10 of the DVX and my buddy was down near 30 and he got his less than 10 days after I got mine. That was the forst week of October 2002. In all fairness I don't know that you formally announced a shipping date for the DVX. I just know that I got it darn quick. They just seemd to roll in faster.

Thanks for everything.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
The release date was the 29th of December so it is now only 19 days since it release. I know that seems reaalllly long to you, but frankly that is barely enough time to build a camera, box it up and ship it to the US. We will be shipping more cameras this week. ;-) And even more next week. ;-) Jan
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Hey Jan,

Happy New Year,

You're might not know tthe answer to this but I'll ask any way. Any idea on when Canada might get it's shipments?
 
dvaddict said:
My perspective as an owner of the Z1U and HD100.

Both very nice cams vs any 1/3 inch SD. Remember SD guys? Remember we were and or are using these cams currently for paid work or outstanding dramatic work?

Now we bash the Z1U or HVX for not being the Cinealta. Give me a break. These all are revolutionary cams and bury any SD 1/3 inch cam into the dirt and MANY people have made and are still making LOTS of money with SD tech. Now people trash the Z1U because of latitude or because of no 24P. They shoot down the JVC because of it's lens. Sheesh!
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Right! And into the top industry, there is who knows it very well! See it:

1522503799.jpg
Z1U
1522423390.jpg
HD100

LINK

We'll be waiting for the next ones and for the comparative results!
 
WTF he's using that on the fig rig like it's nothing, that guy is god! With such a long lens there's noooo way that's gonna be steady!

Edit: oh damn he's using that for 24! Will that site have the other parts of their findings in the future?
 
Emanuel said:
We'll be waiting for the next ones and for the comparative results!
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Emanuel, that's such a great find! I can't wait to see their upcoming results and see how they feel about the HVX as well (I sure hope they're able to receive one for their tests in time!) I have a feeling that the Z1 has been given more of a chance in the last 6 months simply because it's been the only camera available. If the JVC, Canon, and Panasonic had all come out at the same time, I wonder if they'd really be touting the Sony so much. But it's true; if you can't deliver, then it really doesn't matter how good the specs of your vapourware are. I realize that people have been bitching about the HVX delays forever now, but this is a good case-in-point that taking so long to get their camera out the door may indeed hurt them. Only time will tell.

I love 24; it's far and away my favorite episodic show on television currently. It's really neat, too, to see that high-end DPs who are shooting 35mm and don't even have to bother with the "lesser" stuff are taking the time to learn about the new generation and put it through its paces. I wish we could see the test footage from THOSE tests! :)
 
Are there any tests with the HD100 with a Great lens on it? I know that moves it out of the market for low cost, but renting those lenses could change the results of these tests.
 
"Breathes like Darth Vader"...

My lunch almost came out my nose from laughing!

Thanks, all, for taking the time to set up the comparison tests. That must've been really hectic. And thanks, Barry, for the feedback, both the objective one and the subjective review. Very much appreciated, and funny!

So, subjectively, how does the HVX fare against super 16mm film?
 
I'll find out on the HVX DVD; I'll shoot side-by-sides with some S16 Vision 2 and the HVX and xfer direct to HD, and then extract a native-res patch of each and side-by-side it.
 
Hey Barry, if your going to shoot s16, which film stocks might you use? (Fuji or Kodak) And what speeds might you expose? (50, 100, 200,320, 500)
 
I would tend towards the same speed as the HVX. Preliminary testing puts the HVX at anywhere from 250 to 500 depending on where in the exposure curve you are, so I'd probably look at Kodak 320 Vision.
 
I think that will be an interesting test to see. I look forward to your results. It's amazing that you are doing so much testing. It is my opinion that you are truly an asset to this community.
 
Barry is the remote focus working where you don't need a manual follow focus rig or do you still think having a manual is a necessity? Also do you have a matte box on your beast? I'm thinking of getting some 15mm rails with follow focus and matte box. Is there a larger LCD (say 7 inch) that is decently priced for framing? Thanks for all the work.
 
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