4:2:2 480p?

4:2:0 is 4 pixels using different shades of the same color. you get 2 of those pixels on line one and the other 2 on the line below it, for example. 4:1:1 is 4 pixels from left to right all on the same line, all different shades of the same color.
4:2:2 only uses 2 pixels for the same color, so you end up with twice the color resolution, sharper edges for chroma keying, etc.
4:4:4 being the best-est-est, is one pixel per color.
I think that is basically right. It is all pretty new to me.
dvcpro50 and dvcpro hd gives you 4:2:2 color space. mini dv in ntsc land gives you 4:1:1 color space. Mini dv in PAL land gives you 4:2:0, I believe. And so does hdv- you also get 4:2:0 color space.

Maybe someone can come along and clarify that a bit for you.

Jason
 
im still not sure why converting to SD would get you 4:4:4 ish color? I mean, theoretically I understand the concept but can't imagine it working as good as it sounds in practice.

Again, is there anywhere that has moe info on this concept of downsampling HDV for better color? examples? This is something I've very interested in knowing more about.
 
I don't see how you can get 4:4:4 color space if you didn't film in that color space to begin with.
HDV, being 4:2:0 already, would be the same color space as your dvd. The advantage to filming dvcpro 50 or dvcpro HD, as I see it would be better control in post, and thus a better finished product when you take it to a 4:2:0 dvd, or whatever.

Jason
 
It SOUNDS to me like you'd be getting "sharper" color but not better. Like the DVX footage compared to HVX, hvx color looks a lot better than DVX. Are you saying the the ONLY difference is color resolution?

I could see this being a solution for keying problems, but if your color isn't great to begin with it's not sinking in how this would make the color "better".

The reason I'm VERY curious about his is because I'm about to buy the andromeda which I'm really excited about, but the difference in production obviously makes me nervious. If I could buy an HD100, get 720p if I needed res, or 4:4:4 SD for DVD, that's the direction I'd want to go.

I'm really sry for being an ass, this is just important before I blow what is to me almost a year of pay.
 
This is my experience:
I did my last movie with the DVX and my new one with HVX.
The main difference is that color-correcting with HVX footage is a LOT more maleable. I don't know why, but I can drop the blacks and lift the whites, without the image looking smeared.
It seems to have a lot of room now for color-correcting...
I have a lot of samples of screen stills on my blog:
http://blog.digitalworkstudios.com
AND logically, chroma-keying is a lot easier...

I also looked at the andromeda option, but the thought of lugging around a hard drive and a laptop EVERY time, just was not as pleasant of just having my camera and shoot.

The dead kennedy's always said: Give me convenience or give me death! jajajajaja

good luck cheese!
 
4:4:4ish color is possible with an HDV downconvert. I'm not sure how well it keys but it should be pretty good. Might be interesting to try a test where you composite in HDV and then downconvert vs downconverting to 4:4:4ish and keying. Would be interesting.

As for color being 'better' well that's a subjective term and has nothing to do with whether full color resolution is present. It all depends on what an individual thinks looks 'good'.
 
Shaw said:
4:4:4ish color is possible with an HDV downconvert. I'm not sure how well it keys but it should be pretty good. Might be interesting to try a test where you composite in HDV and then downconvert vs downconverting to 4:4:4ish and keying. Would be interesting.

As for color being 'better' well that's a subjective term and has nothing to do with whether full color resolution is present. It all depends on what an individual thinks looks 'good'.
Click to expand...

very true. and BTW, I'm not very interested in keying, I dont do any compositing, I'm just interested in that "perceived" color difference.


on the JVC website, it says this about the HD110:

"Live 720/60P analog component output (4:2:2 equivalent)"

anyone know what this describes?
 
Cheesesailor77 said:
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"Live 720/60P analog component output (4:2:2 equivalent)"

anyone know what this describes?
Click to expand...
It's saying that if you plug the camera directly into a monitor and view the live output, you'll see a 60p framerate and the analog equivalent of 4:2:2 color. 4:2:2 is a digital notation, analog video doesn't use that terminology, but they're saying the video outputs have enough color information that they could be fully sampled at 4:2:2.

This is only relevant for the analog outputs; the recorded format is 30p or 24p (or 25p) at 4:2:0.
 
Well, you could record it on a deck that supports analog HD input, or on a computer that's equipped with a capture card and an appropriate RAID that can handle the 200-megabyte-per-second data stream.
 
Recording uncompressed HD is no small task. You can do it with certain cards like the Kona or DeckLink, but usually you'll have to convert the component signal into HD-SDI (using something like the AJA box). Then there's the CineForm Wafian device, which (last I checked) was about $15000 and records to hard disk; it's not uncompressed though, it's compressed using the CineForm codec.
 
Well, yes without P2. If you were willing to tether a different camera to a computer to capture 720@4:2:2, why not do it with the HVX too? Pipe the firewire out to FCP or EDIUS or Avid or DV Rack 2.0HD and capture all the variable-frame-rate 720p 4:2:2 footage you can stand... ;) and you won't need a special deck or a kona or decklink card or a SATA RAID or anything like that, just use a regular firewire cable and capture away... you can do it on a regular G4 PowerBook or a dual-core PC laptop.
 
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