2nd Gen GH1 ??

[Barry_Green]

Peter, I agree with all of this, except for factoring in who the camera is coming from. If this was coming from the broadcast side of the company, I'd be clamoring for it louder than you are. But it's coming from the consumer side of the company, and therefore I'm not surprised in the least.

Disappointed? Sure. Surprised? No.

I think, at a minimum, 95% of the GH1s and 7Ds and 5DMkIIs are going to be sold to people who will never even notice or care that those features we so desperately miss are not there.

I am not happy about it. I just don't think it's unexpected or unreasonable considering where it comes from and who it's marketed to.

 

[commanderspike]

I think, at a minimum, 95% of the GH1s and 7Ds and 5DMkIIs are going to be sold to people who will never even notice or care that those features we so desperately miss are not there.

Or to enthusiasts who cannot afford the pro kit.

I think this forum has a mixture of users. The pros, the knowledgeable enthusiasts and the general consumers. It's weighted towards the pros and enthusiasts - gladly, but we are a sizeable group and I am sure there is a business case for catering better for us in a consumer style market, if only Panasonic or others would listen.

Not everyone just wants to point and shoot at a birthday party.

When the GH1's sensor in much improved form comes to a professional camcorder like the DVX range in the future, and they solve all the issues, I think Panasonic will have a lot to answer for if they price it too highly. They have proved with the GH1 that incredible video performance doesn't have to cost a lot, and they can still have a healthy profit margin on it.

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

How many times have you seen a parent at a soccer game, wedding, graduation, baseball game, birthday party, etc., videotaping an event...

... and wearing headphones?

The GH1, 7D, and 5D are *consumer cameras*. People using them aren't going to be wearing headphones.

We are the oddballs. We're the ones trying to take a consumer item and press it into professional service.

Yes, I'm well aware many consumer cameras do have headphone jacks, but who uses 'em? I'm also sure many consumer cameras don't even bother with headphone jacks.

I hear you, Barry. The example above actually illustrates my point rather than refutes it.

It's my contention that a large percentage of today's "consumer" users will often want to use a headphone with their GH1/7D/GF1, etc. for playback -- that is, viewing _after_ shooting their home/school/office videos. Not every time, but often. Why? Because today they almost all have headphones or (more likely) earbuds.

When you the multiply "number of consumer users" times "often" the result is a big number.

Back when regular 8 & Hi8 consumer cams were popular, many of those cams had headphone jacks, but my guess is consumers didn't use them much. Why? Because back then portable audio players -- and their earbuds -- weren't anywhere near as common as they are now.

Do you really think little Sally who just used her shiny new GH1 (or, soon, more likely GF1) to shoot a video of her friends skateboarding while they laughed, cursed and screamed isn't going to want to watch that video playing in the cam over & over again AND LISTEN TO THE AUDIO VIA EARBUDS while she's riding in a vehicle or sitting in class or in her room when she's supposed to be quietly studying?

I can think of a trillion other mundane scenarios where a headphone jack would be a consumer's absolute favorite best friend forever feature in their video-capable cam.

Just ask any new iPod Nano user if they'd be happy if its new video camera feature couldn't play its sound through its headphone jack!

OK, so far I've been babbling in this post about playback. Well, it ain't rocket science for Panasonic, Canon, etc. to enable "live" audio monitoring (while recording) through that very same headphone jack which a huge number of their consumer users would really, truly love to have even if consumers only use it for playback.

Any consumer electronics hardware & software engineer who wasn't born yesterday should know that instinctively.

They also know implementing basic headphone jack functionality is essentially free.

So. They. Should. Just. Do. It.

And. They. Should. Stop. Pretending. It's. Not. Important. Or. Relevant.

 

[Sttratos]

Honestly, all I want is a better codec, at least on pair with the 5D. This is the downfall of the GH1 for me and the only reason I don't get one. I think this is far more important than some half baked audio capability. You are never going to get production level audio out of it anyways. Just use double system. But when you are stuck with an inferior codec, you are stuck with an inferior codec. There's no work around.

 

[Ozpeter]

Again, the lack of simple, ordinary, expected audio functionality can not be made out to be some kind of advantage.

I don't think I said it was an advantage - IMHO it's just that there's a minimal (but praise be, at least stereo!) audio function and that any small extension of that would really make the limitations even more obvious - add a headphone socket and lack of level control would have to be addressed next. Within the form factor, a mic input that accepts normal 3.5mm unbalanced mic connectors wouldn't be too hard, as opposed to the tiny input over-recessed into the body that the GH1 has. The display quality would accommodate decent metering nicely, and maybe the wheel on the front could handle level. And yes, a line input option would be good too. But I suspect that the GH1 development team were handed a development budget, and a cost-to-manufacture budget, and have had to make probably hard decisions within that framework. I doubt whether they were given any kind of free hand in terms of financial constraints. "You want better audio? Well, you'll have to scrap the lens correction stuff". Etc etc.