Okay, so I'm scheduled to film my first wedding and I have heard from many people 24p is the way to go and I agree; however, should I film 24p or 24p advanced? I am running fcp so I have the ability to do the pulldown for the 24pa but I'm thinking for editing and my own sake, would it simply be easier to edit in a 60i timeline with 24p footage? Also would the quality or 24p vs. 24pa be the same? I've also heard that the vertical detail freq should be set to thin for best quality. Well it makes sense; however, I recently read that if you are not going to film then be sure to NOT film as thin or else it will result in a flicker. What I'm wondering is after the pulldown would this flicker be gone? If not, then what should my setting be for the v. detail freq? What I find weird is I have been editing using the thin setting at 24pa on fcp and everything seems to be well. There's no flicker and the image is very nice. I just wanna play it safe and not make rookie mistakes for this wedding. I only have one take. Thanks for any help. Lastly, if anyone could give me some good settings they use to film weddings I would appreciate it.
24p or 24p advance?
- Thread starter kager
- Start date
dory_breaux
Todd Wannabe
If all your footage will be 24pA and there wont be any 30p or 60i mixed in with it, defenetly go 24pA. I have found its alot easier to work with, and its not hard at all to get it onto a dvd. I dont know about FPC, but with CS3 all I do is hit "burn to disk" and make sure the settings match for 24pA.
If you're going to edit in 24p (which you should unless you're mixing in 30p), then shoot 24pA.
If you're going to edit in 60i (which you should if you're going to mix 30p), then shoot 24p standard.
It really is as simple as that.
If you're going to edit in 60i (which you should if you're going to mix 30p), then shoot 24p standard.
It really is as simple as that.
mindzeye
Well-known member
greetings kager... the moderator is right... if you're going to use different footage from different cameras to incorporate into your project... it would be best to stay with 24p. From my many years of experience as a wedding videographer... i have learned that you will get a lot of different requests to add footage or a picture from another video or photo source other that yours... so for the best compromise between picture quality and ease of post production work flow... i would recommend 24p standard. Besides, chances are if your clients are viewing their wedding project from a DVD they won't be enjoying true 24 frames... not that they'll even notice the difference... and it's not much of a selling point either. Keep it simple 24P standard is my opinion. As far as your camera settings are concerned... it's pretty much all personal preference... there are too many combinations of settings to just pick one. Run your own test... and see what you like. Barry's DVX book is a great source.
You can make a 24p DVD. If they have a progressive-scan player and a progressive TV, they can enjoy true 24p.
Thanks for the helpful advice. I will be using two dvx100b's to film the event and will most likely have a short slideshow in the beginning of both the bride and groom. The only thing I'm faced with is picking a setting and going with that. I have done lot's with 24pa and it's amazing how nice the result is; however, I know there will be fast paced moments like dancing and low light situations which are beyond my control. So what I think is stick with 24p and that way if I decide on filming in say 60i or 30p I have the option. Does this sound like a good idea? Honestly I'm not 100% clear about 24p and 24pa. Is 24pa simply used to transfer to film?
24pA should be used any time you intend to edit in 24p. And you should edit in 24p any time you have 24p footage, unless you need to mix it with another type of footage and you don't want to convert it to 24p (and you never want to convert 30p to 24p).
So, in short, if you have all 24p footage, you should be editing in 24p. So, shoot 24pA.
It doesn't matter what your final output will be.
So, in short, if you have all 24p footage, you should be editing in 24p. So, shoot 24pA.
It doesn't matter what your final output will be.
UncleBenji1977
Well-known member
Interesting... However, I've noticed that when I shoot in 24pA, it tends to be a tad strobbyier. (Spelling?)
Why is this? I mean, in truth, it's hardly noticeable, but regular 24p just comes off a little smoother. IMHO.
Why is this? I mean, in truth, it's hardly noticeable, but regular 24p just comes off a little smoother. IMHO.
It is if you watch it straight from the tape, or on a 60i timeline.
It's because of how the frames are arranged when the pulldown is added. Standard 24p takes the first frame and splits it into two fields. It then takes the second frame and splits it into three fields. Then it takes the next one and splits into two, the next into three, and so on. 2:3:2:3:2:3 . . . .
Advanced pulldown splits the ifrst frame into two, the second into three the third into three, and then the fourth into two, and then repeats the pattern. 2:3:3:2 . . . and so on.
When viewed in sequence, the frames split into three fields are on screen for 50% longer than the frames split into to fields. In standard pulldown, that's every other frame.
In advanced pulldown, those two frames are back-to-back, so it's more noticeable, especially when there's a lot of motion. It's like a tiny pause.
The advantage of 24pA, though, is that the fields are arranged such that an editing system, once it takes all of the field pairs and puts them back together as full frames, there's only one frame which is made up of fields from two of the original 24p frames, and that mixed or "judder" frame is every FIFTH frame, so the editing system can just drop every fifth frame and presto, you've got your original 24p.
Standard pulldown doesn't work like that. It takes more work to reconstruct the third 24p frame in a four-frame sequence.
It's because of how the frames are arranged when the pulldown is added. Standard 24p takes the first frame and splits it into two fields. It then takes the second frame and splits it into three fields. Then it takes the next one and splits into two, the next into three, and so on. 2:3:2:3:2:3 . . . .
Advanced pulldown splits the ifrst frame into two, the second into three the third into three, and then the fourth into two, and then repeats the pattern. 2:3:3:2 . . . and so on.
When viewed in sequence, the frames split into three fields are on screen for 50% longer than the frames split into to fields. In standard pulldown, that's every other frame.
In advanced pulldown, those two frames are back-to-back, so it's more noticeable, especially when there's a lot of motion. It's like a tiny pause.
The advantage of 24pA, though, is that the fields are arranged such that an editing system, once it takes all of the field pairs and puts them back together as full frames, there's only one frame which is made up of fields from two of the original 24p frames, and that mixed or "judder" frame is every FIFTH frame, so the editing system can just drop every fifth frame and presto, you've got your original 24p.
Standard pulldown doesn't work like that. It takes more work to reconstruct the third 24p frame in a four-frame sequence.
dory_breaux
Todd Wannabe
I find that the 24 modes are always more strobey on the camera LCD then they really are...
24 is more strobey because it's more like film.
There are old school rules about how fast you can pan from point A to B to avoid strobing with film. So it's funny in a away that some folks complained about the DVX having strobing when it panned since what they were complaining about was an accurate depiction of a film look.
With film or 24p there's just less motion samples, so fewer pictures across your pan, the feaster the pan the greater the strobing. That's why people like 60i for sports, as many samples as possible 60 half samples per second. That's why some run and gun style stuff like the Born Identity can give some people headaches. Usually we're panning with a subject and our focus is on them and not the background, in those instances we don't notice the strobing so much be cause the subject is maintaining a fairly consistent position within the frame.
There are old school rules about how fast you can pan from point A to B to avoid strobing with film. So it's funny in a away that some folks complained about the DVX having strobing when it panned since what they were complaining about was an accurate depiction of a film look.
With film or 24p there's just less motion samples, so fewer pictures across your pan, the feaster the pan the greater the strobing. That's why people like 60i for sports, as many samples as possible 60 half samples per second. That's why some run and gun style stuff like the Born Identity can give some people headaches. Usually we're panning with a subject and our focus is on them and not the background, in those instances we don't notice the strobing so much be cause the subject is maintaining a fairly consistent position within the frame.
flatlander
Well-known member
hey there i am putting a dvd together and all the parts with filmed in 60i and one for the parts was all filmed in 24p.what should i do when i put them all on the timeline to export out as a full move so that i can build and burn to dvd?
They don't have to be exported/rendered in one program. You can have both on the same DVD at their original frame rates.
flatlander
Well-known member
its a bmx dvd and i need them on the same timeline!
Depends on what you want it to look like.
If you want it all to look like 24p, then edit as 24p.
If you want the 60i parts to look like 60i and the 24p parts to look like 24p, then edit as 60i.
If you want it all to look like 24p, then edit as 24p.
If you want the 60i parts to look like 60i and the 24p parts to look like 24p, then edit as 60i.