24F, stabilization and focus

K

kookooframe

Well-known member
Okay, just did an all day shoot of a theater and dance festival indoors. Used an A1 and and A1s. Perhaps made the mistake of shooting in 24F. Lot of motion blur when there is movement, even with camera locked down. Just enough to blur slightly. Shot some non-tripod backstage stuff and disappointed with the auto focus. I had Instant Auto Focus off and shot mostly in auto for that. Did not use stabilization because it seems to me from past use this sometimes makes things worse, trying to compensate.

Would shooting in 60i have been a better strategy? Also wonder if others have had similar disappointment with run-and-gun footage shot in HDV so far as focus is concerned.

Does anyone out there have better luck shooting movement with the A1 in standard def mode?

When nobody is moving and the camera is locked down, the 24F HDV looks wonderful. But I have a 9 year old Sony DS-250 in standard def that would have captured all the movement clearly and delivered a brighter picture to boot. If I had to do it all over again I would have used that.

Any input or discussion welcome. I'm not really a DP but I play one on television.
 
Autofocus at 24 frames per second is highly unreliable because you don't have enough motion samples to accurately plot movement. This is true for all cameras. Shoot in 60i and autofocus would be better.
 
What was your shutter speed set to? And are you using a preset that has noise reduction turned on?

I shoot events all the time, and I always shoot HD 24f. I routinely use autofocus when I'm on a steadicam, and I always use the image stabilizer when I'm shooting handheld, and I've never had a problem with blurry images. Other than the occasional stuttery pan from shooting progressive.

-Kevin
 
I shoot weddings on the side with an XH-A1 and am continually impressed by how well the "run and gun" footage comes out. The autofocus, given enough light, works equally well in 60i or 24F in my experience, but of course I've never shot stage work like theater. I think the image stabilization works wonders on the XH-A1 if you're not using an adapter, I'd definitely recommend it if you're going handheld - in my experience it really smooths out some of the kinks you get in movement with hand held work.
 
It is interesting the takes you folks have on this. Sacksnack, the shutter was probably at 48 though I used auto mode so that may have fluctuated. I did not use a preset -- used the camera default. Kept gain at -3. (no problem with graininess at all) I did not try the image stabilizer. Hasn't seemed to help in the past. Maybe I should experiment more with it, but it has been unsatisfactory.

Finnegan, thanks for the input. I have heard a lot of people say, like you, how well the stabilization works. I thought maybe the stabilizer on my camera was defective somehow, but I used someone elses A1s with the same lack of success. Hmm. Even when my camera was locked down I still got slight blur when people moved so maybe it was just the lack of light.
 
Well it also depends how fast the subject is moving. If you're in 24F there's bound to be some motion blur, but that's something that people tend to like. It feels cinematic, since cinema has always been shot at 24 frames/second. Your last post though might shake things up a bit - you were using auto mode? Because if that's the case, the your gain setting wouldn't have mattered. Auto mode controls your exposure, so even if your gain setting is set to -3 db the camera will compensate if it thinks the image is underexposed. I'm fascinated that you didn't find any noise using auto - most users say the moment they use auto they see an exponential increase in noise. Oh yeah and remember there's a difference between grain and noise.
 
By "noise" do you mean perhaps a flittery aspect to solid blocks of color? Perhaps that is what makes me uneasy about the focus. I'd have to look closer at the footage. I always thought the A mode allowed you to turn off certain auto settings, such as auto gain. That's what I used. I certainly did not see the gain coming up when I shot in the dark theater. Perhaps you are thinking I used the Easy Recording mode (rectangular icon) which indicates full auto in everything?

I'd really like to get my head around this because I would love to be confident about using the A1 in run and gun situations, especially with 24F HDV. I realize 24F gives you motion blur in a filmlike way. But faces shouldn't go out of focus just when they turn a bit.

Any thoughts appreciated. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and go Full Manual no matter what? Even though Auto would seem convenient at times?
 
Motion blur is going to be dependent on shutter speed. If you are shooting in auto mode, and the camera wants more light, it will open the iris and drop the shutter speed. I think it will drop down to 1/24 when shooting 24f in auto. That would certainly give any movement more motion blur. You can check shutter speed by pressing the exposure lock button at any time.

My bits of advice, don't be afraid of using the gain switch. +6 is quite acceptable, and that noise will disappear if you're ending up on DVD. For me personally, I like to shoot at 1/60 when possible. I think it gives a crisper look than 1/48. But I use 1/48 when the light gets dim. And don't let the camera make the decisions for you. Shoot manual, or at least shutter priority. Hope this helps.

-Kevin
 
thanks, Sacksnack. I think I will give your suggestions a try, use Shutter priority and try shooting at 1/60 when light allows for the 24F. I've had a chance to review the footage, and it is not bad. Just a little softer due to motion blur than I would have liked.

Even in a dark theatre I was able to get all I wanted with subdued stage lighting, even at -3 gain. But I see your point -- if I jacked up the gain, I could more likely shoot with a shutter at 1/60
 
Unless you really want 24p, there is no point in shooting 24p @ 1/60. You can shoot 60i @ 1/60, you will get the same sensitivity and much better motion rendition.

If you are shooting a stage play, I think you want to make it look real, as if a viewer sits in a theater, thus you should shoot 60i. I watched quite a few of recorded theater plays and I never minded their "reality" look.
 
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