24 p what is it good for?

Not all Hollywood directors use 24p. Look at the famous director Werner Herzog. For example in The White Diamond he clearly shot in 50 or 60 frame rate. With all the handheld stuff 24p would have looked bad. I don't think 24p is good for anyone wanting to have lots of movement with the cam. If you look at Phillip Bloom, most of his stuff is static shots. But he tells great stories by just changing the scene in edit, not with a pan. If he was panning around a lot he probably would not like the camera. Thus its not the codec, its the style of the director. Whatever you like better you shoot with. 1080 60i is an option on GH2 as well even if the bit rate is too low. My two cents.
 
So thats the soultion if you want somting to be changed. Be quiet and get somthing else?
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The solution is to buy a product that does what you need. To buy something that DOESN'T do what you need, and then complain about it, is -- well, that just sounds like a bad idea. And a waste of time.

The way I see it you can either a) work with what you've got, b) change to something else that does what you want, or c) sit around complaining. Two of those paths will result in a positive outcome, and one won't accomplish anything.

You could be working right now, using either the extremely common 24p-to-25p conversion workflow, or the probably even-more-common de-interlacing 50i-to-25p workflow.

The product is what it is. It's your responsibility to buy the right tool for the job. Buying the wrong tool, and then complaining about it, is counterproductive.
 
In Europe using 25p opposed to 24p is highly advisable because it equals the mains frequency. Lights flicker (a little but they do) in the same frequency. When the camera is in sync with the mains it doesn't cause any problems. When shooting with 24p there is always a risk of a slow (1 sec) flicker caused by interference. When shooting 24p in Europe one is forced to work with professional light gear. The same applies to shooting tube TV-sets. When an old TV is in shoot one is forced to shoot 25p or 50i.

There is obviously no stylistic difference between 24p and 25p. TV films are usually shot 25 frames/s on film. No-one can spot a difference to 24f/s, not even on a film-out in a cinema.

Bluray discs support 25p. It's a myth that they don't do it. 24p has just been added. If worse comes to worse 25p always go into 50i, again like all the TV productions shot on film.

And considering how problematic it is to mix 24p and 25p/50i footage (old material, material from TV and archives and material from other cameras) in postproduction I will never buy a camera limited to 24p. Pity about the GH2.

By the way. I can't see any reason to shoot 24p in Europe except if it goes straight to a film-out for a cinema release. Can't be that many GH2 users, with all respect. So: why, why why????
 
sorry it was when i opened up 25 p in the 24 p project it looks strobish doing the oposite makes it looks like its littel superimpose over everything. i been asked around i avid forum nobody has a solution for this.
 
glnf said:
Bluray discs support 25p. It's a myth that they don't do it. 24p has just been added. If worse comes to worse 25p always go into 50i, again like all the TV productions shot on film.
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Technically, Blu-ray specifications only support 50i video. In practice, however, a 25psF video wrapped in an interlaced 50i container will be converted back to a progressive 25p video stream by any modern Blu-ray player.
 
lpowell said:
Technically, Blu-ray specifications only support 50i video. In practice, however, a 25psF video wrapped in an interlaced 50i container will be converted back to a progressive 25p video stream by any modern Blu-ray player.
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Of course you're right. I was just a bit polemic. But, as you say, no problems in distributing 25p material on Bluray. By the way, isn't it the same with DVDs, bare the 24p option?

Best, g
 
Grisnjam said:
Are you running 180 degree shutter (ie 1/50th shutter speed for 24p footage?).

This make a big difference. I use eeshutter priority mode (set at 1/50th) and let the camera set the ISO (limited to 800) and aperture when I am doing quick shooting.
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I use the MCamera icon manual at 1/50th iso to what ever the condition of the shooting is.
 
Yes, all SD-resolution DVD video modes are interlaced. Most modern DVD players can be set up to convert interlaced videos into progressive video streams.
 
glnf said:
Of course you're right. I was just a bit polemic. But, as you say, no problems in distributing 25p material on Bluray. By the way, isn't it the same with DVDs, bare the 24p option?

Best, g
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24p became hot issue after Bluray arrived. I presume 24p wasn't a hot issue in "old" days because most DVD movies were not encoded in 24p. Prolly market driven decision. Just 5 years ago consumer HDTVs were not capable of displaying high bitrate 24p source "natively". Wasn't Panasonic's Viera in 2008 the first consumer HDTVs with 24p true cinema?
 
Not sure where these ideas are coming from. DVD has supported native 24p encoding since the beginning, and basically every hollywood movie that has ever been released, was released as native 24p encoding. The DVD player has always had the ability to add 3:2 pulldown to accomodate televisions that couldn't display native progressive footage. In the original DVD players, before there were "progressive" players, the DVD player ALWAYS added the 3:2 pulldown. When progressive DVD players were introduced, they had the option of either adding pulldown or just outputting the native 24p signal.

DVD (and blu-ray) have supported native 24p encoding from day one.
 
So there is even less reason to switch now to 24p (in Europe - I see a point in 60i-countries, where the TV standard rate and the film frame rate are clearly different). At least the introduction of Bluray can't be the reason, considering that DVD allows 24p already for a long time (according to Beery). 24p is probably just sexy at the moment. But don't send the BBC (or any other European broadcaster) your commissioned work in 24p!
 
Barry_Green said:
DVD has supported native 24p encoding since the beginning, and basically every hollywood movie that has ever been released, was released as native 24p encoding.
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I sure wish this had been the case, as it would enable me to play back my DVD collection at 24p on my progressive-output Blu-ray player and watch it on my 240hz HDTV. But alas, all NTSC DVD content is recorded in 59.94i interlaced format, with 3:2 pulldown used to encode 24p movies:

http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.8
 
ingoandfloyd said:
Well there is ways to convert 24p to 25 p and make it looks good but it cost a lot of money, there not doing that with a imac computer.)
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This is completely wrong. You can retime video footage from 24 to 25p losslessly with freeware (e.g. avifrate on a PC - you just change the framerate metadata). Your sound will then be slightly out of sync, but is easily retimed, near-losslessly, with any decent sound editor.

Or if that's too DIY, transcoding software like Cineform and Procoder will do both steps for you in realtime during a transcode, for a few $100 dollars.
 
ingoandfloyd said:
sorry it was when i opened up 25 p in the 24 p project it looks strobish doing the oposite makes it looks like its littel superimpose over everything. i been asked around i avid forum nobody has a solution for this.
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hey, it seems we talked about this before :)
and you seemed very happy about it... what happened? (we can discuss it in the linked thread, to not disturb the "neighbors")
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?231643-24p-to-25p-and-1080i-to-25-peasy-in-avid!!!
 
GrahamH said:
This is completely wrong. You can retime video footage from 24 to 25p losslessly with freeware (e.g. avifrate on a PC - you just change the framerate metadata). Your sound will then be slightly out of sync, but is easily retimed, near-losslessly, with any decent sound editor.

Or if that's too DIY, transcoding software like Cineform and Procoder will do both steps for you in realtime during a transcode, for a few $100 dollars.
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Again, if you have a finished film to speed-up or -down, there is not much of an issue. But dealing with a mixed project is hell. Just think of a concert film where one of the cameras was running on 24p. Or compositing work where the background footage is in 25p and the foreground in 24p. Or a documentary project with archive footage. It is possible but a pain. You can speed up a few shoots, OK. But hundreds of clips, the originals floating around on your disc, sound, time code, the written logs ...
 
glnf said:
Again, if you have a finished film to speed-up or -down, there is not much of an issue. But dealing with a mixed project is hell. Just think of a concert film where one of the cameras was running on 24p. Or compositing work where the background footage is in 25p and the foreground in 24p. Or a documentary project with archive footage. It is possible but a pain. You can speed up a few shoots, OK. But hundreds of clips, the originals floating around on your disc, sound, time code, the written logs ...
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dear god, this could be hell.. but i think it was only concerning 24p to 25p as a whole sequence (BTW which one looks better? this or slowing to 24p?)
 
lpowell said:
I sure wish this had been the case, as it would enable me to play back my DVD collection at 24p on my progressive-output Blu-ray player and watch it on my 240hz HDTV. But alas, all NTSC DVD content is recorded in 59.94i interlaced format, with 3:2 pulldown used to encode 24p movies:

http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.8
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I personally don't know what encoding specs commercially-bought DVD movies use (like Studio-release movies), but I've encoded hundreds of 24p DVDs that standard DVD players have ADDED 3:2 interlacing to and output to regular tv screens. So Barry is at least right that DVD players support playing and adding 3:2 pulldown to 24p source material DVDs.
 
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