2 Problems with AF101

@Brian@202020
..cool.. this really helps..thanx..

@Jan_Crittenden
..sorry.. didnt want to offend Panasonic Support Global.. Amerika is pretty sharp thanks to you.. But here in Austria it can take a while for answers...
still waiting for an answer for my Picture-noise complaints i sent nearly a month ago.. but hey.. this Forum solved that one for me anyway so no need anymore for a solution...

Regarding the 2 answers.. Ok.. so the Conclusion is OIS and bad White Balance.. Although half of the Material looks properly Balanced even though i didnt change up from the 5600 Preset...that is strange in my opinion.. because shouldnt than all material be blueish?.. ok.. so maybe its the different f-stop and every f-stop needs new balancing.. ok... i can accept that but it just seems there is not much headroom... the OIS thing.. I know OIS on Tripod..I used it on the XL-H1 20x Zoom half of the Time.. If you do a Pan the OIS will either keep on for a bit or will shorten the Pan.. but will only mess up slow Pans.. fast Pans always worked flawlessly.. But such things like letting the whole Picture jump like that?.. never experienced it.. I probably really must have stressed it alot.. it was nearly a 360 degree with high Speed, high Shutter and little bit of Zooming... I checked some slow Pans where i turned off the OIS and the Picture is fine.. so OIS it is then..

is Panasonic thinking about releasing a new Zoom lens for the AF101 which is a bit tougher?....for say 2000-3000 Euros.. I would buy it...

In the meantime I will definitly keep my fingers away from the OIS switch...
 
Hi tet20,

I actually thought all of your footage looked blue. And once you establish proper white balance, work on better exposure control. You are on the edge of blowing out highlight detail.

Best regards,

Jan
 
tet20 said:
@Brian@202020
Although half of the Material looks properly Balanced even though i didnt change up from the 5600 Preset...that is strange in my opinion..
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As I explained in my previous post, your "whiter" clips are overexposed and therefor not "so blue" anymore due to the fact that clipping loses color.
 
I do not think this is a IOS issue, look at the frames I pulled from the video. The wheels are really sharp in each frame as is the traffic cone. But the "skipping" frame is not all blurry (ie the car the driver etc.) but the fast moving wheels are interpolated. Only software can do this, not IOS.

I completely agree dont use IOS on the sticks, it can create problems. But I don't think it would look like this.

I think this happened after the video was shot and was caused by software interpolation in the computer.

It is easy to find out just post or send me an email and I will give you an FTP site to upload an original file from the camera that has a skip in it (before any processing). And I will be really interested in analyzing it.

I would really like to know what happened here, and did you mean 1/100 or 1/1000 sec exposure, it looks like about a 1/500-1/1000 or so to me looking at the wheels.
 
olof said:
I do not think this is a IOS issue, look at the frames I pulled from the video. The wheels are really sharp in each frame as is the traffic cone. But the "skipping" frame is not all blurry (ie the car the driver etc.) but the fast moving wheels are interpolated. Only software can do this, not IOS.

I completely agree dont use IOS on the sticks, it can create problems. But I don't think it would look like this.

I think this happened after the video was shot and was caused by software interpolation in the computer.

It is easy to find out just post or send me an email and I will give you an FTP site to upload an original file from the camera that has a skip in it (before any processing). And I will be really interested in analyzing it.

I would really like to know what happened here, and did you mean 1/100 or 1/1000 sec exposure, it looks like about a 1/500-1/1000 or so to me looking at the wheels.
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He said it was present in the original .mts files, even when viewed in camera, so I don't see how it could be a software interpolation issue

it happened during the shot.. i could see it on the LCD Display.. And its also in the original mts Files....
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Also, 25p is a straight decimation from 50p (either even or odd frames are kept) , so there is no interpolation involved
 
There is really something going on look at the frames.

If possible I would like to see the original file. I just don't see how this would happen in the camera.
 
olof said:
There is really something going on look at the frames.

If possible I would like to see the original file. I just don't see how this would happen in the camera.
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He said he saw it on the LCD while shooting. That means it happened in camera, likely because of OIS being on.
 
@Noel Evans
yeahh.. your probably right.. I am pretty new to the AF101 and Panasonic in general.. Xl-H1 behaves quite different.. And thats what I am used to... although in the shadows the 5600 worked perfect ;) ..

@olof
no problem..
www.mydrive.ch
usr: af101@tet22
pwd: agaf101
..file is 00020.mts
if you speak german you can even hear me commenting on the Picture jumps...
Shutter was 1/1000!

big thanx to all of you.. it seems it was the OIS.. thats the Conclusion i guess... just received a call from the Cutter who is editing that Piece.. an normally he never calls me about anything.. I was afraid I would get a beating but.. He started with:" Thats the best Material i received for Ages.. What camera did you use?..." :) ..Of course he didnt mean the driving Scenes...He was referring to the Voigtländer 25 mm Shots i did of the Car Exterior and Interior standing still .. And regarding the Driving Scenes.. He said thats no Problem.. Hes editing in short Intervals he says...

So i feel quite good now......
 
definitely OIS. HVX does the same. The Panasonic OIS is way more aggressive than the SONY and Canon in these situations....

Colour Temp could be way more than 7000. I have seen 11.000 in cold wintermornings in Austria. But it is an easy fix in post if need be.
 
alpi69 said:
Colour Temp could be way more than 7000. I have seen 11.000 in cold wintermornings in Austria. But it is an easy fix in post if need be.
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Agreed. I had a mixed shoot yesterday, nil light control and had to do a "middle balance". Bringing them into Color, I was able to clean it up very easy. No problem with the codec for these things.
 
olof said:
There is really something going on look at the frames.

If possible I would like to see the original file. I just don't see how this would happen in the camera.
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Olof you can do this to your own footage, Set up a tripod with the AF100 in OIS mode, pane the camera. It is as reliable as the sun coming up in the morning.

Best,

Jan
 
I've had this problem when we run can on tripod for a church service and the OIS is on. The pastors moving one direction, camera is panning, and jump/jitter left then right. I immediately recognize it and call down for them to turn OIS off.

This is with hpx170 of course. But yeah!
 
olof said:
I do not think this is a IOS issue, look at the frames I pulled from the video. The wheels are really sharp in each frame as is the traffic cone. But the "skipping" frame is not all blurry (ie the car the driver etc.) but the fast moving wheels are interpolated. Only software can do this, not IOS.
Click to expand...

The blur on the middle frame could still be explained by the OIS being the root cause, I think (possibly). The frames around it are more "crisp" b/c of his high shutter, and he was panning with the car. The middle frame was perhaps "mid-move" the frame jumping forward suddenly to try to compensate for the pan, causing a more pronounced blur when viewing it frame by frame.

I'm completely speculating, for the record.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Olof you can do this to your own footage, Set up a tripod with the AF100 in OIS mode, pane the camera. It is as reliable as the sun coming up in the morning.

Best,

Jan
Click to expand...

Jan I have my first real shoot with the AF100 tomorrow. It is partly outside in the snow, so it is very similar to the shot above. I will even shoot it with a car driving by and panning, and I will shoot with OIS on and off panning. I will post sometime next week with the results.

The reason I don't think it is in the camera is that only some of the middle frame is blurred the rest is as sharp as the rest of the frames. If OIS was moving the internal elements in the lens the whole frame would be blurry, but it is only the cone and the wheels and that part looks just like a made up frame by interpretation only the parts that were really changing position blurry doubles.
 
olof said:
The reason I don't think it is in the camera is that only some of the middle frame is blurred the rest is as sharp as the rest of the frames. If OIS was moving the internal elements in the lens the whole frame would be blurry, but it is only the cone and the wheels and that part looks just like a made up frame by interpretation only the parts that were really changing position blurry doubles.
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I disagree. I think this is absolutely, unquestionably, and without a doubt, a case of OIS on the tripod.

Your example spells out even more exactly why it is that. Only the middle section is blurry -- that makes perfect sense. This is a rolling shutter camcorder. During the top portion of the frame, the OIS was still tracking. During the middle portion of the frame, it "re-set". At the bottom portion, it started tracking again.

If this had been a CCD, the entire frame would have been blurred when the lens re-set. But it's not, it's a rolling-shutter CMOS, so only the portion of the frame that was being scanned during the lens re-set, got blurred. Makes perfect sense.

No doubt, no question -- this is a textbook example of why you should turn OIS off when using a tripod.
 
olof said:
Jan I have my first real shoot with the AF100 tomorrow. It is partly outside in the snow, so it is very similar to the shot above. I will even shoot it with a car driving by and panning, and I will shoot with OIS on and off panning. I will post sometime next week with the results.
.
Click to expand...

Olof, the only time you should have the OIS on is when you are doing hand-held work. If on a tripod the camera is working to correct movement and so when you start to pan, that is movement, then is sees you meant to pan. Control your exposure and only use OIS in hand-held work and you will be fine.

Best,

Jan
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Olof, the only time you should have the OIS on is when you are doing hand-held work. If on a tripod the camera is working to correct movement and so when you start to pan, that is movement, then is sees you meant to pan. Control your exposure and only use OIS in hand-held work and you will be fine.

Best,

Jan
Click to expand...

My experience is that Steadicam and jib also want OIS off.
 
Agreed Erik, and I go one further, I basically dont use OIS unless I physically have the camera in my hand, with one exception: On a tripod - camera isnt being panned, in heavy wind.
 
I use OIS also when on a tripod and zoomed all the way in during heavy wind. It helps with the little vibrations, especially if you aren't using a heavy duty tripod.
 
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