2.35:1 framing

XCheck

XCheck

Veteran
Big question:

I was AC-ing on a shoot last Sat. with the DVX100A. The director wanted 2.35:1 aspect ratio that was to be cropped from an unsqueezed (4:3) frame. The DP gave me a framing chart with all different framing marks and asked me to make a mask on the flip-out display for the 2.35 frame.

Knowing that the flip-out only shows something close to TV safe area of the frame, I temporarily turned the camera into letterbox mode, framed the chart so that it's 16:9 marks aligned exactly with the edges of the letterbox bars, and then made framing mark on the viewfinder where the 2.35 marks were. Something like this:

Code: 
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////// <- upper letter box bar
         /\16:9                     16:9/\

->2.35:1                                         2.35:1<-




->2.35:1                                         2.35:1<-

         \/16:9                     16:9\/
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////// <- lower letter box bar

We didn't have a proper production monitor available to see the framing with underscan, so I figured this method would be the next best thing.

The trouble is, now the DP tells me the framing is closer to 1.85:1 than 2.35:1. I have no reason to question that, except for possible oversight on his part when the footage is brought to a computer for editing (square pixels rather than 0.91 for NTSC comes to my mind as a possible cause as 2.35 * 0.91 = 2.14, half-way between 1.85 and 2.35).

I would like to know if one of your gurus can comment on my method of establishing the 2.35:1 framing, and if it's correct, what else could lead to the perception that the framing is wrong in post? I am pretty sure they use Avid Express for editing.

Thank you,

Jerry
 
Okay? No answers? :cry: Should I rephrase - or am I doing something so obviously stupid that even Barry doesnt' take this on? :huh:

Please! Help me to get this right. I may talk to the DP tomorrow, and I want to know what's up with this problemo!

J.
 
Sounds like what I would do. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. Hmm. If I had to guess I'd say it's a pixel aspect ratio thing like you mentioned. Any chance you could get some screen grabs to post?
 
Check the footage on the monitor that they're using. If it's the wrong pixel aspect then it should be visible as being distorted. Make sure they're also looking at a real production monitor since the computer will display everything edge to edge (including the black line at the edge of the frame). This won't show up on a monitor or TV.
 
if im understanding what your saying (im so out of it today) then you you could use an image like this...its 1.85 and 2.35 setup in a .9 aspect ratio image...so when you view it at square pixels it will be an accurate look at those ratios.

anyway, take an image like this and turn it into dv footage and record it to tape. get some plastic window decal stickers, from staples/office max, its the kind that wont stick permently. cut out a piece of this plastic and put it over the lcd. then play the footage of the guides on the dvx. trace the lines with a thin sharpie and you should be ready to go..

guides.jpg
 
i have used the palm screen protectors from compusa and cut them down but there was a post from rush that said evsonline has something that is made for it.

i'll probably try that next time so i don't have to cut it.

matthew
 
I've been using clear overhead projector material for years & it works great.

Do this: Figure out the frame top & bottom and then cut out the middle section so what is left is a rectangle of clear plastic. I leave small narrow strips on the right & left ends to keep it all together. Then take a marker and slightly darken the top and bottom edge, that's your line. Use four tiny pieces of gaffer tape and tape it on the LCD frame & you're ready for action. You can make 2.39:1 and 1.85:1 for the two standards.

This is basically the same as what is done for 35mm film with 1.37 academy apt. size. but they use ground glass to frame and we use this stuff. Our real problem with this super 35 framing method is loss of resolution. Film is about...18 xs the res of DV,...something like that. maybe the HVX will cure some of this res loss.
 
thats a good idea, i want to do some framing on my production monitor with the center mark and the thirds grid.

i wish the dvx had some option where you could download an overlay to it to be used for both the eyepiece and the lcd.

matthew
 
What you after is called a "Cage Generator." I asked the engineer for DV RACK to put one on in that is selectable black & white lines so we can see beyond the frame in dark & light environments.

This allows us to say, "hey can you move your right arm a little more to the left, yeah, that's it.....", and see beyond the frame.
 
matthewd5 said:
i have used the palm screen protectors from compusa and cut them down but there was a post from rush that said evsonline has something that is made for it.

i'll probably try that next time so i don't have to cut it.

matthew
Click to expand...

Something made specifically for the dvx lcd?
I looked at the evs website and couldn't find it. Does anyone know the name of the product?
 
I used the pic provided by Rich Lee and made a guide for the LCD using the palm lcd covers I got from Office Max. It came in a pack of 12, and I only need 2, so I've got 10 extra. If anyone wants one, I'd be willing to make them and mail them to you if anyone is interested let me know.

Say $1.50 ea. and a Stamped Self Addressed Envelope? Any takers?
 
jkc123,
They are called Screen Skins and are back in stock at EVS.
Hope this helps.
Ken

Disclaimer: I make the little devils, so I'm admittedly biased.
 
do you actually have one? does it actually fit the dvx screen out of the box?

is it just a clear overlay ie. you make your own marking?

is the adhesive the sort that you can peel the overlay off and not leave a mess?

i have to order a polarizer from rush and i definintely wan't to try one of these.

matthew
 
Matthewd5,
Yes, it was made specifically for the DVX 100/A LCD screen. No need to make your own markings;the top and bottom of the overlay are "greyed out..ie: darker than the 16x9 area in the center so that you can compose for 16x9 and still see the full4:3 frame through the Screen Skin. This helps to see an incoming microphone or anything else intruding into the full frame.
These are basically a type of window decal film and won't leave a residue if properly applied.
Don't rub 'em on real hard...that's a good way to damage any LCD screen. Just peel off the backing at the tab and GENTLY apply the overlay to the LCD screen. I peel mine off when storing the camera between shoots to make sure there's absolutely no chance of residue.
They're re-usable and come 2 to a package.
They are also available at Abel Cine and Birns&Sawyer in Hollywood.
Hope this helps.
Ken
 
hmm. not sure how that will work for me as i shoot in anamorphic with the adaptor on one dvx and squeeze on the second one.

next time i'm at abel cine i'll get one and try it out.

matthew
 
jkc123 said:
Something made specifically for the dvx lcd?
I looked at the evs website and couldn't find it. Does anyone know the name of the product?
Click to expand...
I have a specific product line I have been developing since last year for cameras, production CRTs & LCDs but I am just now finally going public with it.

http://www.aspectcorrect.com

I at NAB & I trying to finish updating my website. I have 5 different variations for the DVX-100A & the calibration/framing information is extremely accurate...
 
i like how you made the third's and included the center mark, its the same as the ones i drew out by hand.

do you make one for the 14" sony monitors? and do you have versions for 16:9 anamorphic on the dvx-100a's and the sony 14" in its hardware 16:9 mode?

matthew
 
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