1st Feature Camera Choice

Although some in this forum would disagree... the A1 is comparable to the HVX in terms of picture quality. You could probably get one for under 3k. But I would also stress that with a hv30 w/ letus mini and some good lenses will give you some really nice footage. Ultimately, its not really the camera but the operator. BTW I sold my DVX and bought and hv30 to tide me over until the Red Scarlet is out. Since your budget is only 5k, I would suggest doing a short instead of a full length feature.
 
There is an HVX 200 in the Marketplace for 3.5K. Should I just go that route and worry about editing later? It will probably go fast. ???
 
I would buy all your gear for the production. Try used/referbished proudcts, and then sell them at the end of the shoot. If you are using used equipment, then the going rate for it will be pretty consistent between a hvx with 100 hours and that same hvx with another feature on it. Same applies for the Mac Pro. I would even look for a used one to do your editing with, and then sell it after the fact.
 
don't forget the intangible benefits that come from shooting p2. mainly, that you can do a rough edit on location to check for continuity and the look of your shots, vs. having to capture from tape. that could really save you.

you should also take a look at this LOOOOONG thread. "Corrado - A production blog". adam shot his feature with the hvx. ok, waaaaaay different budget scenario, but i'm sure you can glean some wisdom from his posts. the thread is a great read. very similar to reading rebel without a crew, except it's still going on. he's wrapping up the edit right now.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=126339
 
Noel Evans said:
Im very sorry to interject here, but seriously this screams of someone who has never used a Canon A1 and 24f/25f for that matter. Seriously, if you dont know, or have the real world experience, please dont comment.
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I actually have used the A1, G1, and XL H1...I think they produce an image that still looks consumer like. The color depth sucks, for lack of a better word. I would prefer the HVX or even my DVX over any of the Canon cameras. I have compared footage from the HV30 in 24f mode and the A1 in 24f mode and they both look the same with more noise from the a1. Canon makes great consumer cameras, but i think the HDV format really hurts their professional line.
 
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Focal 7 said:
The more I read, however, the more indecisive I become. I have a PC, but nothing really to edit with. My budget for equipment is 5K. I am wondering if I should scale back on camera choice and spend more on editing.
First, a little about the movie, and then maybe I could get some guidance.
Modern day horror (what else, right?) Primarily outdoor wooded locations, both day and night time. Also in abandoned buildings with natural light streaming in both day and night. Minimal panning.
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Why minimal panning? Unless it's a style choice, I say MOVE that camera. It adds a lot to the production value.

Since this is your first feature, I say spend the least you can get away with. The dvx100b shooting at 24PA puts very small demands on your editing system. As soon as you go HD, everything has to be bumped up a notch, $$$. Yes, it may look a little better, but what really counts is your story, script and acting. Just grab the $2k no-hassle time-tested prosumer cam of your choice, a decent tripod, and maybe a pvc-dolly. Then, you can focus on the story and actors.

Get a decent mac, (might want to wait until production is over, so you know you'll need it), and make a great flick. Once you've done it once, you'll have the answers to 90% of the questions you have now.

By the way, are you planning to try and sell this movie or is it more of a learning experience/ for fun etc...?
 
why does he need to buy a mac pro, im editing a feature on an imac, whats wrong with that? im just curious.
 
merc said:
why does he need to buy a mac pro, im editing a feature on an imac, whats wrong with that? im just curious.
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I edit with a borrowed MacBook Pro and I want to buy myself a Mac Pro...There's nothing wrong with it (The rendering times tought me patience though :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)). The Mac Pro just allows for more expansion therefore making it cheaper in the long run. If your on a really tight budget, like no money will ever come your way and this is the only thing you have, then an iMac is fine.
 
Thanks guys to all the response on this thread, I continue to learn.

SlimChrisp- I am in the process of reading "Corrado- A Production Blog"
Yeehaanow- Minimal panning is my style choice. My favorite flick has 2 short pans in it. I'm doing it for fun, I'm sure I will learn some things along the way, & heck yes, I'm going to try and sell it! Fortunately I have 1/2 a dozen very talented people behind me.
Used HVX at $3500 verses New DVX100b $2500
 
just my 2 cents. i have a dvx100b, and seriously considered getting a second one, but finally opted for the hvx200a. soooooo glad i did. extra coin, yeah. but i've done so much more shooting just to try things out. no tapes? no problem. pop in the p2 and try out whatever test shots i want to do.
 
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I am also shooting a feature and have decided to shoot with the dvx100b, because ultimately it's the story on the screen not the gear your shooting with.
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Yes, but the DVX is not a cheap camcorder. It costs about as much as the XH A1. It makes no sense to use a DVX for your feature film unless you already own one. For a feature film that could be screened in cinemas, a HDV cam is much much better.
 
seunosewa said:
Yes, but the DVX is not a cheap camcorder. It costs about as much as the XH A1. It makes no sense to use a DVX for your feature film unless you already own one. For a feature film that could be screened in cinemas, a HDV cam is much much better.
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It just might be, but you also have to consider cost. If you only have $5,000 to spend, buying a DVX and a Final Cut Studio system may be more worth it than getting an HDV camera and upgrading an existing PC. Final Cut Studio is cheaper than Adobe Premiere Pro when similiarlly equipted (a PC version of Compressor, Color, etc.). Also, nobody really mentioned taxes. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE $5,000 TO SPEND, THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN SPEND $5,000 ON ALL THE EQUIPMENT. CALCULATE AND REMEMBER TAXES! If your in NY, it's 8.25%.
 
If you only have $5,000 to spend, buying a DVX and a Final Cut Studio system may be more worth it than getting an HDV camera and upgrading an existing PC.
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The best thing about HDV camcorders is that they all have a DV mode. If you don't want to upgrade your system for HDV editing, you can use the HDV camcorder to shoot DV. Or you can shoot HDV and then downconvert to DV in the cam for better quality videos, and you'll still have the option of switching to HDV later for the total cost of $0. Buying a DVX, on the other hand, means you'll have to buy another expensive prosumer camcorder in 1 or 2 years.

The second best thing about HDV editing is that it doesn't require that much juice. My single core[/b] PM laptop can play HDV videos in real time, so how can editing HDV be a problem for the average editing systems? All you need is a NLE that supports native HDV editing with mini. Like Sony Vegas. It doesn't even require significantly more hard disk space if you edit HDV natively. But you'll need more RAM, which is cheap. (AVCHD is where the problem really is.)

Things get a little bit slower when you start applying visual effects to your high definition footage, but: (1) You don't have to do this. (2) All it requires from you is a bit more patience if you can't afford a new PC (3) For many projects, you can do it all in camera using the extensive manual controls on expensive camcorders.
 
I'm a film student and I previously was using a Panasonic PV GS320 for my class work. I did all my editing on a PC that I put together. I installed an old copy of Adobe Premiere Elements 1.0 that I bought for around $20. In March, I emptied my bank account and bought a new DVX100B from Newegg for under $2400. I am still using Premiere Elements as my NLE because, quite frankly, I cannot afford anything more at this time.

All that being said, I shot my final class project with the DVX100B in 16:9 Squeeze mode, edited it on Elements (no color corrections or tweaking of any kind) and output to DVD. The final result was entered in the university's spring film festival and projected on a full-sized screen in the university's theater. The image on the screen looked fantastic and most of the audience thought I had shot it on film. In fact, the most common word used to describe the film was "awesome."

The DVX100B is fully capable of producing a quality feature film on a budget. Just remember to always set the vertical detail to THIN when shooting in Squeeze Mode.

If you have a good script and an engaging story, the DVX100B will get the job done nicely.
 
@Paladin: Excellent story. So,
- If the OP, like you, already owns the DVX, using it may be an acceptable compromise.
- If he wants to buy a new one in 2008, that's a mistake. That's all I'm saying.
 
To seunosewa:
Prosumer HDV cameras, on average, cost about $1000 or more over the price of a DVX100B. For a beginning filmmaker on a tight budget, that's a lot of money. That extra money would buy some much-needed accessory equipment. Don't forget that a number of successful theatrical features (and a few TV shows) have been made with the DVX100 series camcorder. Just because HD is the newest thing does not neccessarily mean that SD is dead. Far from it. I use to shoot stuff on an old Bell and Howell 70DR 16mm film camera before I went digital. I like digital, but that doesn't mean I've abandoned 16mm film. I still have the 70DR and plan to do some more work with it in the future.

I considered the HVX200 and the XH-A1 but the extra $1000 to $1500 purchase price was a major obstacle as I only had $2500 in my savings. Another was the fact that I would have to spend even more money to build a more powerful PC (I hate Macs and FCP), and another $900 for an NLE capable of handling HD. You suggest buying an HDV camera and shooting SD until a better support system can be acquired. Those of us just starting out on a really tight budget cannot afford to do that. With a $5000 budget, one cannot afford to blow 80% of that budget on the camera alone.

Filmmaker Cigdem Slankard once told me that if you have a film that you want to do, the important thing is to make the film; however you can and with whatever equipment you can afford. The important thing is the story and the characters who tell it. I know of one aspiring filmmaker who is shooting his first feature on a PV GS320 because that is the only 3CCD camera he can afford. He has a story to tell and he wants to tell it. A filmmaker cannot let him/her self get bogged down with idea that only the latest technology is acceptable as the medium by which to tell the story.

Rodriguez shot his first feature (El Mariachi) on an unsynchronized 16mm camera and recorded his sound on an ordinary cassette tape recorder. You see where he is now. He had a movie to make and he made it.

It would, by no means, be a mistake to buy a DVX100B. It is a great camera with much filmmaking potential left in it.
 
@Paladin:
Filmmaker Cigdem Slankard once told me that if you have a film that you want to do, the important thing is to make the film; however you can and with whatever equipment you can afford. The important thing is the story and the characters who tell it. I know of one aspiring filmmaker who is shooting his first feature on a PV GS320 because that is the only 3CCD camera he can afford. He has a story to tell and he wants to tell it. A filmmaker cannot let him/her self get bogged down with idea that only the latest technology is acceptable as the medium by which to tell the story.
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I'm in full agreement with that. I use a GS500, a 3CCD DV cam, myself.

You've raised a good point about the XH A1 being more expensive than the DVX. A difference of $600 ($800 if you consider rebates). I would take that argument one step further and suggest the HV30, which is about $1500 cheaper than the DVX, supports HDV, and has extremely good reviews everywhere. I would couple it with the Rode Videomic for additional savings. I would still have almost $4000 left to spend on the other aspects of the production. I would not mind the fact that it looks like a toy - provided it gives me a better looking image.
 
my 2 cents. You can find a almost new hv20 for $600 or less. People on this forum have made great movies with it. And u get to have alot of money left over for the important stuff.
 
Look at things this way...Right now, the only real way to distribute your movie would be on a DVD or internet, that way everybody could watch it/ DVDs don't support HD pictures, so the extra resolution is a waste. With the internet, you could distribute in HD (just like the yahoo movie trailers), but you would need to compress it and anyone who wants to watch it has to download it overnight. In other words, HD is not worth it at this point.

A
 
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