1DC: 1DC or BMPC

[Guest]

I'm not sure, I guess I'm really confused... to say that the GH4 is less practical (even the flip out/articulating screen gives it an edge up over anything Canon's got in DSLR land for video) than the 1DC for video... especially since it has the things that you're asking for in the 1DC? Waves, etc., without any hacks. It's also a smaller camera... so taking it places... I mean it's a smaller camera?

I assume you are referring to my comment: "So it compares in specs, but not absolutely in practical application." I meant that, they may look similar on a specs sheet, but are more different in the way the two cameras are going to be actually used. The practical application of their use.


"in a practical application" and "practical application" are different in my dialect.

... to say that the GH4 is less practical

That goes beyond paraphrasing, and into changing the meaning of what I said.

 

[AndreeOnline]

Whoaaaa whoa whoa I never mentioned price at all.

No, I did, in the quote you pulled from me in post #55.

The argument for the last few pages was that the 1Dc is expensive and lacks features. In my quote I ask where the competitors are—making a point of considering the whole camera—and I wanted to underline that the GH4 doesn't reach it at all since I use both stills and video.

 

[Kholi]

So it compares in specs, but not absolutely in practical application. plenty of cross over, but 1D-C is still a grab and go 4k mojo camera you can take to the craziest places, and it feels great in the hand, image looks great, and as long as you can see with the eye, you can shoot with available light.

The combination of those two ideas lead me down the wrong path, my fault. It seemed like you were saying that, in practical applications, the 1DC is more of a grab and go 4K mojo camera that you can take to the craziest places, etc...

And, I was confused on how the GH4, which has an articulating screen, live exposure tools for video, smaller body, and more isn't the same thing or more.

Admittedly, I don't eat enough vegetables, so you'll have to excuse me... as I prepare to get a chicken sandwich from Fatburger this afternoon. xP

No, I did, in the quote you pulled from me in post #55.

The argument for the last few pages was that the 1Dc is expensive and lacks features. In my quote I ask where the competitors are—making a point of considering the whole camera—and I wanted to underline that the GH4 doesn't reach it at all since I use both stills and video.

Gooooooooot it. Okay, the stills part's where our opinions differ. As far as video camera, GH4 (on paper) is clearly a competitor, to me anyway. I mean... it's pretty much THE ultimate video/stills hybrid, with great expandability on the horizon.

 

[AndreeOnline]

I am glad you mentioned the stills side. In this forum, I tend to judge the 1D-C on motion capture alone, yet I definitely enjoy using it as a stills camera quite often.

I've written it before, but my goal with the 1Dc was to replace my 5Dmk3 and my C100. I wanted both of those cameras' features combined into one body.

The camera side is better, which is to be expected even if the resolution is a little less. The HD image is better from the 1Dc too, but the C100 has a few practical things like NDs and audio features and so on...

Still, I feel I got more than I wanted. At the same time, you can see that I had no illusions about getting the equivalent of 4k raw or anything like that. Just a very, very, very nice photo/video capturing machine.

 

[Guest]

The combination of those two ideas lead me down the wrong path, my fault. It seemed like you were saying that, in practical applications, the 1DC is more of a grab and go 4K mojo camera that you can take to the craziest places, etc...

And, I was confused on how the GH4, which has an articulating screen, live exposure tools for video, smaller body, and more isn't the same thing or more.

Admittedly, I don't eat enough vegetables, so you'll have to excuse me... as I prepare to get a chicken sandwich from Fatburger this afternoon. xP

Haha, all good, I was just having some fun with it. I can totally see where the confusion would happen.

 

[Guest]

I've written it before, but my goal with the 1Dc was to replace my 5Dmk3 and my C100. I wanted both of those cameras' features combined into one body.

The camera side is better, which is to be expected even if the resolution is a little less. The HD image is better from the 1Dc too, but the C100 has a few practical things like NDs and audio features and so on...

Still, I feel I got more than I wanted. At the same time, you can see that I had no illusions about getting the equivalent of 4k raw or anything like that. Just a very, very, very nice photo/video capturing machine.

Absolutely, on all points.

It will be interesting to see where this segment goes conceptually. An idea like a hybrid gets messy real quick. Factions split off into what is more important, since genereal users are not going to want to pay for features they don't appreciate.

But overall, I like the route of something that is nice to hold, needs no add-ons for basic shooting, and can at least fit in a small pack. In that sense, I like what the 1D-C is doing. However, I am largely motion centric, and could get lured into a different faction.

Things stills cameras would have to change for me:
-global shutter
-live exposure tools
-built in EVF or, and I hate to say this... a flip out LCD. I really dislike them, but they are indeed useful.
-better mirro-lock-up solution. clicking that thing up and down between everything is disturbing.
-mirror lock up silent photo bursts.
-hdmi and audio i/o's on top or back, not sticking out the sides.
-standard size screw mounting holes to add accs without a cage.

 

[AndreeOnline]

It will be interesting to see where this segment goes conceptually. An idea like a hybrid gets messy real quick. Factions split off into what is more important, since genereal users are not going to want to pay for features they don't appreciate.

Exactly what I was thinking about over the last few posts. =) The multitool aspect can be problematic.

 

[cookinghusband]

Regarding the EVF, it will be fine if Canon let be attached the external EVF from G1XII via a cable.

for fables sticking out from the front side or give be a proper box cover to protect all the 6 wires, I have shaped a dozen of HDMI cables already luckily the port is still fine.

I want Dual Pixel AF upgrade as well


Regarding the price of the 1DC I will be fine if it is 50% more than 1DX this 100% more made me think for about 3 months before buying mine( after initial price drop)

 

[Guest]

Regarding the EVF, it will be fine if Canon let be attached the external EVF from G1XII via a cable.

for fables sticking out from the front side or give be a proper box cover to protect all the 6 wires, I have shaped a dozen of HDMI cables already luckily the port is still fine.

I want Dual Pixel AF upgrade as well


Regarding the price of the 1DC I will be fine if it is 50% more than 1DX this 100% more made me think for about 3 months before buying mine( after initial price drop)

I like the idea of smaller lighter EVF's. As long as they are better than 720p resolution.

 

[LeavingTheCandy]

Wow...my head hurts after reading all of this.
How's the HD image from the 1DC compare/contrast to the C100/C300 image?
How 'bout stills compared to MK III?

 

[AndreeOnline]

Wow...my head hurts after reading all of this.
How's the HD image from the 1DC compare/contrast to the C100/C300 image?
How 'bout stills compared to MK III?

For HD you have options:

Shoot in 4k mode and send that signal uncompressed, but scaled to 1080p, to an external recorder. That gives you uncompressed 8bit 4:2:2 that you can capture in ProRes for example. It's supposed to be a very good HD stream—the only "limitation" being 8bit, really, but I have no personal experience.

Use the 4k internal recording you shot above and recorded simultaneously at 8bit 4:2:2 mjpeg. Use this full 4k source and scale it down in post with the additional benefit of being able to "punch in" or re-frame at no cost. This is what I do myself and it is noticeable better (and more flexible) than the C100 I had before.

Shoot straight to HD internally in S35 mode. It's a decent file, but not as good as C100 or C300.

The raw stills are more robust than files from the 5Dmk3, but the mk3 has more pixels (18 vs 22). For example, you can take a 1Dc raw file and almost push it 4 stops without seeing sensor pattern noise. With a mk3 the limit is probably around 2 stops if I remember correctly. The ability to lift the shadows is the main thing for me on the stills side.

 

[cpreston]

When you say the S35 mode isn't as good as the C100/C300, how is it worse?

 

[LeavingTheCandy]

Good info....thanks. Is it possible to send the 4K signal out to a recorder like Odyssey?
Is the 1080P out via HDMI?

 

[AndreeOnline]

When you say the S35 mode isn't as good as the C100/C300, how is it worse?

Maybe I should have taken the time to elaborate a bit more. I simply meant that the 1Dc 4k mode is a 1:1 pixel crop at about 1.3x of the sensor. The 1Dc S35 mode that yields 1080p isn't as clean from a cropping standpoint as the "perfect" 4k sensor grid on the C100/300/500 that achieves 1080p without debayering.

I haven't tested it clinically and I don't use the S35 mode. But my feeling from the few test shots has been that it is significantly better than normal DSLR footage, but not quite Cinema line grade.

 

[AndreeOnline]

Good info....thanks. Is it possible to send the 4K signal out to a recorder like Odyssey?
Is the 1080P out via HDMI?

There is no 4k out. But in 4k mode, you can send the acquired data (4k acquisition at 1.3x crop) scaled to 1080p. It's via HDMI.

 

[cookinghusband]

Wow...my head hurts after reading all of this.
How's the HD image from the 1DC compare/contrast to the C100/C300 image?
How 'bout stills compared to MK III?

1)similar not too much difference to c100/c300 if HD ( may be better if record 4K than scale back to hd)
2)same difference as 1DX vs 5D3 a bit better.

 

[Jon Roemer]

How 'bout stills compared to MK III?

To me, stills on the 1DX/1DC vs 5D3 are noticeably better. The 1DX/1DC has lower noise at higher ISO's, you can pull up the shadows and recover the highlights more on the 1DX/1DC.

I'm coming at this as a professional photographer who now is ~50% video. While I was waiting for my C300 in 2012 I got a 5DM3 thinking it would be a better upgrade from my 1DsM3 than going down in resolution to a 1DX.

Here's a blog post I did comparing the 5DM3 vs the 1DX (just looking at stills.)