ALL: 130/160 owners, can you test the auto focus of the camera.

I am doing run and gun almost every day with eng lens for the last 15 years (manual focus lens) and newer had a problem with focusing - if you get payed for your videos adjust your camera manually and after some time doing it you will newer want to go back to auto focusing (just zoom in adjust focus and zoom out - it does not take more than 3 or 4 seconds). There is no camera that will do auto focus perfect with camera panning tilting or something moving in the scene. That thing Jan is saying with pushing buttons and moving joystick to where you want it to focus is waste of time (IMHO) probably with static shots it works fine but when movement is involved no automatic setting on no camera will work perfect. I do not think you pay 4000+ for the camera and let it do with the image what ever it does in auto mode. For me big problem with this camera is no audio in 1080/50p and not making it shoulder or semi shoulder mount considering it's size.
 
Hi LanceOregon. I noticed you have a Canon Vixia G10 and the 130. I also have a Canon Vixia HFS100 and the HMC150. I find the auto focus on the Vixia is awesome with face detection and group shots. Even shooting through a bunch of trees at a deer.
I know most don't agree with this, but I like shooting auto focus 90% of the time. If it is not a paid job, I even like to leave everything on auto if it is family or wildlife shots. Of course I adjust the ND filter on the HMC150.
But the point I want to make, is I would like a video camera that I can use the auto focus as good as or better then the Vixia. And I do like the zoom and low light features of the Panasonic 130. When I shoot wildlife, I sometimes have not a seconds time to adjust anything, so I am wishing the 130 can handle and perform well in auto mode.
With more and more people receiving their new 130/160 cameras, I look forward to reading their test results and experience, and hope the 130 camera is for me. It has taken me a long time to save up the money, so I want to make a good choice.

What is your experience between the both? (the canon G10 and 130)
Have you tried to simulate the same tests these guys are showing with "out of focus"? Maybe they have a bum camera or wrong settings. But they are bringing up good points that need to be tested.
In your opinion, is it possible to have auto focus on and do a decent job for run and shoot type shots with the 130?
And different subject, The G10 and 130 would be a great team working together. How is the color match in editing of the 2 cameras? How about in low light? I assume the 130 is better, just interested how much more darkness the 130 can handle more then the G10. The Vixian camera is so perfect to take with you in your backpack. You are lucky to have both.
Nice shot of the Policeman.
Thanks for your time.
 
ok jan i will try the joy stick put square in the shot you want to be in focus. i have tried that at church on a reader or priest talking on one side. But i will try night scene see want happens
 
Zlatko said:
I am doing run and gun almost every day with eng lens for the last 15 years (manual focus lens) and newer had a problem with focusing - if you get payed for your videos adjust your camera manually and after some time doing it you will newer want to go back to auto focusing (just zoom in adjust focus and zoom out - it does not take more than 3 or 4 seconds). There is no camera that will do auto focus perfect with camera panning tilting or something moving in the scene. That thing Jan is saying with pushing buttons and moving joystick to where you want it to focus is waste of time (IMHO) probably with static shots it works fine but when movement is involved no automatic setting on no camera will work perfect. I do not think you pay 4000+ for the camera and let it do with the image what ever it does in auto mode. For me big problem with this camera is no audio in 1080/50p and not making it shoulder or semi shoulder mount considering it's size.
Click to expand...

Yes i should use manual all the time , But done that with all my shoulder camera with manual focus from sony to panasonic, so i know how to use manualfocus manual iris and i been doing this since 1987 before i was into 35 mm still camera . i am just getting older my eye is not as good so some non important shot i like the auto focus to help me focus.
 
Exactly dhardjono,
If other cameras had a hard time with auto focus there would be no issue here either. I did a quick behind the scene footage of a movie production, all in manual set up on a older Sony FX1, and you can't see an focus issues or auto iris drastically changes exposure what so ever. If shooting with the AC160, the auto focus is jumping and the iris is changing the exposure noticeably, why would that be good at all. If a 5 year old camera can look good, why should the cutting edge camera give you these issues. Manual settings should be just that. Hand your camera to your wife to record your daughter cheerleading and it looks like any other camera. Not focusing all over the place and the exposure changing noticeably. Again, I say, if I wanted to set up all my shots, I would have purchased the af100. I didn't and I am a little worried that I made the wrong choice!!! Please help me out with the manual setting with the AC160 someone. Not you shouldn't ever shoot with manual focus, that is not the issue. Or, you need to go to functions button and place the curser over the intended target. That would be just great to hand your camera over to an inexpereanced shooter and state you need to go into this and that and set all of this up to get a decent shot. That is not what manual is all about.
 
I feel really guilty I have owned video cameras since the start and never even bothered to try autofocus. As a long form documentary editor I often have to cut around material that includes hunting autofocus shots so it has never entered my head to use it. I cannot see how any system can work 100% so why risk losing material for just a little bit of effort. I have the same look on auto exposure, a wrong exposure can be fixed but a continuously variable one usually stuffs the shot.
 
If you are working at a wedding reception where the DJ has strobe lights going and lights flashing around and you're running around trying to do spot interviews or other coverage, you either need to be SOLID on your focusing skills or you need a really good autofocus. I have done both...honestly, in the past, with the HMC150 and the DVX100B before that (and on older Canon cams like the L2/GL1/GL2/XL2), the autofocus was great so long as I wasn't running 24p (which I never do at a reception anyway). You could barely trust the LCD monitors on those things - especially the HMC150 - even with the peaking and focus assists, as good as they were. Using an on-camera light and keeping the "talent" in the middle of the screen it was no task at all. My attention instead went to framing and exposure (and I never in my life have used an auto iris on any camera).

For ENG work or corporate, where you're usually on a tripod and working within a pre-defined area, and keeping control of multiple takes, etc....then yeah, you'd be a fool to use autofocus anyway. Much more controlled environment (in most cases, anyway). But for many of us, it's not that we are too dumb or incapable of setting proper focus, it's that there are often a LOT of other things going on at certain types of events, and having previously had very good autofocus on these $2,000-$3,000 camcorders, I think anyone would reasonably expect for autofocus to be solid on the newest generations of these cameras.

Again, I never use auto iris, and couldn't tell you whether any camera I've ever owned was good or bad in that respect. As Bruce mentioned, even if the exposure is slightly over, I can "fix it in post" as long as it is not continuously varying like most auto exposures will do. I can see situations where it might be good, but again, if I'm working with a good autofocus in those situations, then I can dedicate my time even better to managing the exposure.

To reiterate the common complaint here, it's not so much that people are complaining that this camera "doesn't have good autofocus" (because maybe it does, and people just aren't using it right, or there are a couple of bad cameras here and there....TBD). The real complaint is "hey, we used to have such easy and simple autofocus, what the $@&! happened???"

For me, having not really put it to the test yet, if the AC160/130 is going to require me to move the function knob around as I'm running and gunning, then I'll pass on using the autofocus. The good news, though, is that now with the iris ring right next to the zoom and focus ring, it's going to be much easier for me to manage focus and iris together just like on a full-blown ENG camera. So all is not lost! :)
 
I have had my HMC150 for over 2 years and I have never once used auto-focus. My wife even uses the HMC and I will not allow her to use autofocus. I find the best option is to estimate the distance to the subject and use the distance meter on the camera (can someone verify that this is still a feature?). Autofocus is just not a professional feature. I think the problem comes down to the fact that Panasonic touted it as a feature...but in my opinion you should never be purchasing a camera for its "auto anything" abilities until they come up with one that can read my mind.
 
Andy Turner said:
I find the best option is to estimate the distance to the subject and use the distance meter on the camera (can someone verify that this is still a feature?)
Click to expand...

Yep.

Just understand, there are a lot of different people using these cameras in different situations and have different needs. Part of Panasonic's success has come from accommodating all of us with various specific camcorders.

I once saw a videographer who didn't have a left arm, and he'd have a hard time doing what he loves without auto functions and a servo zoom. That's not to say "...and that's why we have auto focus" but rather to illustrate that it's pointless and rather haughty for anyone to pop in here and say something to the effect of "I don't use it, nobody should use it, it shouldn't even exist, and if you disagree then you should get a new career."

Again, the problem here is that there is a feature - autofocus - that used to work quite well, and no longer does, and there's some confusion and disagreement as to whether or not that's all true or if it's just a matter of working a different way. It's not a discussion about whether or not this feature should exist or ever be used.
 
I know when i used to have an hmc-150, it would autofocus fine in interlace mode but was a dog in progressive, hence i always used manual. All my previous panny handhelds dvx100b etc were the same. basically every handheld panny camera ive ever had would be slow or hunt in progressive but be fine in interlace. This might account for some peoples experience but others may be having a totally differant problem. Until more users start shooting i guess we wont know for a while.

if its still a feature i would just stick focus on manual and simple press one shot autofocus whenever you need to change talent/target.This would stop the focus wandering.
 
90% of the time I shoot in progressive so when initially looking at autofocus on the HMC150 that could have been a reason why I was not having success with it and hence have never used it for anything.

Are those experiencing problems seeing it in all modes?
 
Progressive isn't necessarily the problem. The issue is that auto focus runs at the frame rate. So 60 fps (whether 60i or 60p) will be twice as effective as 30p and 2 1/2 times as effective as 24p when using auto focus.
 
Deer Film said:
What is your experience between the both? (the canon G10 and 130)
Have you tried to simulate the same tests these guys are showing with "out of focus"? Maybe they have a bum camera or wrong settings. But they are bringing up good points that need to be tested.
In your opinion, is it possible to have auto focus on and do a decent job for run and shoot type shots with the 130?
And different subject, The G10 and 130 would be a great team working together. How is the color match in editing of the 2 cameras? How about in low light? I assume the 130 is better, just interested how much more darkness the 130 can handle more then the G10. The Vixian camera is so perfect to take with you in your backpack. You are lucky to have both.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I am not well today, and was unable to do more filming at the police department open house today as I planned to. I am 60 years old, and sadly, I am not in the best of health.

The Canon Vixia HF G10 is indeed a wonderful little camera. It cost me $1,400 here in the USA. Face recognition on it works very well to keep people in focus. And the touch and track feature allows one to keep any specific subject in focus, no matter where they move within the frame. I had planned to test the face recognition autofocus feature of the AC130 at today's event. I think that people need to try using it, to see how well it works in these sort of situations.

I've yet to try any run and gun shooting with the camera at this point. That is what I had hoped to do today. And I've not yet noticed any autofocus issues myself. But I have experienced significant iris changes in auto mode that do concern me a bit.

I had wanted to get a camcorder to compliment my little Canon and offer features and performance that it does not have. Something with full manual control, XLR audio inputs, and a longer zoom, all of which the AC130 has. In addition, the AC130 definitely delivers a sharper image in my opinion, and seems to offer much better low light performance too. I've not yet shot any event using both, so I've not yet tried to match colors between the two camcorders. I've heard people claim that it is easier to match Panasonic color output with Canon, than it is with Sony.

For a purely run and gun type camcorder, I think that something the size of the Canon XF 100 is really more ideal.
 
Good news and bad news. I got my AC130 camera today. Tested it for a half hour, then the camera gave me a "card door open " error. I will put that on another post in hopes someone can help.
Anyway..
I tested the 130 only in auto mode, and under flourecent lights. You can see in my video that using both the hmc150 and 130/160 would be easy to mix in editing. The 130 did a little color shifting in some conditions. When my daughter was sitting on the chair. If I put it in manual mode , there would be no problem. I found that if I put face detection on, I was able to keep my daughter or myself in focus with no problem. And I think the bigger head wins. So if I was in a scene with my daughter, I think the camera would pick my big head to focus on. When I used normal focus and went to something that was close to far or different, the 130 took a slow time to focus in compared to the hmc150. I would be interested in how news people would handle this.
For our payed jobs of interviews, education, and such, I think the 130 or the 150 is a great camera. The 130 just looks beefy and awesome and makes my hmc150 look like a little brother.
I hope they can make the auto focus act quicker with some sort of firmware. I found using the spot or normal auto focus on faces leads to problems. Also, face detection is great, but only when you can see the whole face. If you zoom in on the eyes and mouth, the face detection does not work, then you need to change to a different focus method. And it can be done with your preset keys.
I was wondering about the zoom. There does not seem to be a huge difference with both cameras. What is the focal length of the HMC150 compared to the 130?
I will have to send my camera back in because of the card door error. I might wait until I hear the Panasonic is going to address or fix some of the other issues. And I hope it is soon, because I like the cameras.

Here is my little review video... http://www.youtube.com/user/Lampofilm#p/a/u/1/KvQsC_AAaf8

 
hahahaah I was trying to simulate things going in front of people and if it would mess up the face detection. My daughter was laughing pretty hard off to the side at me.
I was very happy with face detection and would use it a lot. I wanted to try the face detection out on an animal to see if it tracks. I used normal focus too. It puts a little cross hair in the middle of the screen. And with that you would be able to film a deer through many trees. I was able to choose whatever I wanted to be in focus and got good results. But most of the time it took the camera a long time to focus in on something new. The HMC150 does this faster. Sometimes the AC130 would focus in on something, go out of focus, and then back to focus all in a second or two. It was like it was double checking itself. I don't think you will have these troubles with slow normal use, but if I am doing wildlife video shots with quick shots or focusing on different subjects with auto, I would experience this. Is this tolerable? I would have liked to do more tests to see. All my tests where done under house lighting and in my living room with low lights. And I would go to one object to another sort of quick. So the autofocus is not a deal breaker for me, and the autofocus so far is tolerable , but I would like it to act faster. It will take some learning to know what auto mode to use in each situation. I wish I had time to play with other auto focus settings.


The mic on this camera is way better then the HMC150. You can actually use it if you needed to.
The LCD screen is sharper also. Since this camera has more weight, you will need 2 hands or a tripod.

All in all, the HMC150 still holds up and will be with me until one of us passes away.

Remember to anyone that reads my comments. I only had about 1 hour experience with this camera. I shot in auto mode and only read 2 pages of the manual to figure out face detect. So like the car example someone said, I drove the camera only in first gear going 20 mpg. I also filmed in poor lit house lights, and my main attention was to see how the auto focus handled. I am testing and looking for something special for my own needs. So please don't take my advise for your buying decision. There are far more experienced people here that know how to work this camera to its proper use. amen and good day. :)
 
Hello
Couple of questions about the AC130
in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70crNGs30Jg

#1 In the beginning, there seems to be a color shift in the skin tone and scene. Everything is on auto. Lights did not change. And in my comparison video with the HMC150, the 150's color did not change, only the 130. Why would the colors slowly change.

#2 Next in my video, you can see the autofocus trying to get in focus. With the flower, I zoom in all the way. I know Kadoma talked about using the "Push Auto Button" in auto mode to help with hunting and quicker focus. Could someone try this for me. I had to send back my camera.

#3 Going from tree to cabin. I am not zoomed in all the way, just switching from one object to another. Why does the HMC150 handle this way better. Check out the comparison video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvQsC_AAaf8

I did try these same tests upstairs in my living room going from one object to another. Same results. Try it with your own camera and then your HMC150.
Why is there a difference in the 2 cameras, when I shoot at the same focal length (not zoomed in)?

If I shoot weddings, and go from one object to another, this might be an issue for the "Auto-Mode shooting guys".
Like I said before, face detection works very well.
They had it good on the HMC150 for focus, why such a difference now? maybe different sensors?

Reading the Update on the Three Brothers article, it does not look like there will be a fix or firmware for this.

Thank you for your time, and by all means I support the Panasonic cameras. And thank you for caring Kadoma and listening. It means a lot and other companies do not do this.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, Deer film.
How does it change that much, I believe not for the better between the HMC150 Vs AC160? Nobody from Panny has stated if this was on purpose and why. Does the HPX250 have the same issues? Why would the Auto setting be made this way, where you can clearly see the changes in Iris, white balance, and focus so noticeably during your shooting. Maybe I am missing something? Panny can you please explain this to me and maybe the intentions or proper Auto shooting methods to avoid these things? Auto modes only!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top