120fps at 4K ?

F

FXMaster2442

Carbonite Member
I don't know if this was mentioned in that long thread on slow-mo and red-code raw or not (I wasn't going to read all that), but is 120fps possible at 4k to any recording device? Be it RAID, or whatever. I'm shooting my feature in 4k but I don't want to have to do slow-motion in 2k just to get 120fps. I guess worst case I'll go 4k at 60, if at all possible?
 
I believe it is 60fps is a limitation of the chip at 4k. If shooting 4k compressed (Redcode RAW) 30fps is the limit for the compression hardware (correct me if I'm wrong here guys).

120fps in 2k windowed and that's it (until RED TWO)
 
Wait, is REDCODE RAW available out the highspeed port? I was under the impression that the limiting factor of no 60p was the compression strain, not the transfer bottleneck.
 
No, the highspeed port is RAW RAW. RED-RAID attaches to this port and writes the information to the disks.
 
I'll jump in here and say what I want for the highspeed port and RED-RAID.

Actually, I don't really care what the highspeed port ends up being (infiniband, fiber). I will just have to buy which ever PCIe card is necessary to connect it to a new mac pro, which I will get around the same time the RED-RAID is available.

I want the RED-RAID to use 3.5" SATA drives. I know some people would rather use 2.5" SATA drives, but they are so much more expensive and less capacity. I also want to be able to turn off the hardware RAID, and turn it into just an SATA enclosure. Let it be rugged for outdoor use, but still let me swap out drives (doesn't have to be hot-swappable by any means). This way, when the RED-RAID is not being used for shooting, I could use it as an SATA enclosure for the computer. I could use it for all those bare 3.5" SATA drives, of various capacity, that I have laying around. I could even do some various software RAID sets with drives that do match capacity. Then, when I need to shoot 4k at 60fps, I can take out the various drives, load it up with all fresh drives of the same capacity, and turn on the hardware RAID.

It would be a rugged SATA enclosure with a highspeed port to capture from camera, a port (or two) to connect to the computer, and has a built-in RAID controller that can be bypassed.
 
I would personally think it would be an un-necessary extra to have the ability to switch off the hardware RAID. If you want a SATA enclosure for your other drives, then buy a separate one. Surely the RED-RAID is better dedicated to, and optimised for, the purpose for which it is intended. You wouldn't ask that your lighting kit should be able to take standard 60W bulbs in order to use it at home as a reading light when you're not out shooting would you? An exagerated analogy I know, but you get my point.

Nick
 
Rob Lohman said:
....RED-RAID attaches to this port and writes the information to the disks.
Click to expand...

Rob,

You say RED-RAID attaches to this high speed data port.

So what exactly is RED-RAID?

Will RED be making a 'RED' raid storage device? or is RED-RAID simply the high speed data port (fibre channel or equivalent) which attaches to someone else's raid solution?

Cheers,
Dave Farland
 
Nick_Shaw said:
I would personally think it would be an un-necessary extra to have the ability to switch off the hardware RAID. If you want a SATA enclosure for your other drives, then buy a separate one. Surely the RED-RAID is better dedicated to, and optimised for, the purpose for which it is intended. You wouldn't ask that your lighting kit should be able to take standard 60W bulbs in order to use it at home as a reading light when you're not out shooting would you? An exagerated analogy I know, but you get my point.

Nick
Click to expand...

I know, but how often are people actually going to shoot 4k at 60fps, or 2k at 120fps?
I have no idea how hard it would be to add a switch to turn off the hardware RAID, or to let the user swap out drives (even if it takes an hour or two). I do know that if RED users could use it as their large-capacity, online storage system, it would get a lot more use. It could also be scalable. You could break it up into multiple RAID sets depending on how much performance is needed.
This way you would only need to buy one high-performance storage solution. Might as well get the RED-RAID, then you can have the option to shoot 4k at 60fps, or 2k at 120fps. The only real sacrifice is having to use 3.5" SATA drives instead of 2.5" laptop drives, making the enclosure much bigger and heavier. But at least you wouldn't have to spend another $10k on a separate high-performance storage solution.
 
david farland said:
Rob,

You say RED-RAID attaches to this high speed data port.

So what exactly is RED-RAID?

Will RED be making a 'RED' raid storage device? or is RED-RAID simply the high speed data port (fibre channel or equivalent) which attaches to someone else's raid solution?

Cheers,
Dave Farland
Click to expand...
There will be a RED-RAID storage device that connects to the high speed data port. Size, price, and capacity are still TBD.
 
Rob Lohman said:
Details for recording the highspeed RAW part are still to be decided. Tell us what you want!
Click to expand...

My only requirement would be 4k 60 FPS RAW and 2k 120FPS RAW, to RED-RAID. Hell, would it be possible to push (I doubt it) 72fps (divisible by 24) at 4k (RAW) since 4.5 can do 60FPS as well?


(Maybe even push 2k Scaled to 72fps too, because as of right now, the site says 60fps for that too.)


Also, I don't get the limitation of 1080 and 720, with 35mm glass, not being able to do 120 fps, when they're far less in res. then the other formats.
 
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FXMaster2442 said:
Also, I don't get the limitation of 1080 and 720, with 35mm glass, not being able to do 120 fps, when they're far less in res. then the other formats.
Click to expand...
1080 and 720 are scaled formats, whereas the 120p option at 2K is only available in the windowed mode.
 
Rob, if it is at all possible, the only thing I would want more than anything for the RED RAID is for it to be portable (ie. battery powered optional) because there have been just so many situations that I've run into where I can get a beautiful shot but there's no electrical sockets to hook up any electronics closeby.
 
Haakon said:
1080 and 720 are scaled formats, whereas the 120p option at 2K is only available in the windowed mode.
Click to expand...



What do you mean by scaled? If you're shooting 1080 or 720 aren't you using the same amount of pixels as 1920 x 1080 or 1280 x 720. So couldn't you take a 35mm lens, take a scaler, and scale it down to 1080 or 720 physically and fill the 1080 or 720 area on the sensor. Sure you're adding an in-camera (additional) lens to do physical image scaling but it would work. You could even reverse it and up-scale to 4.5k with a 2/3" lens.

Or possible make it an insert piece that you can add by hand behind the lense (slide it in from the side or something).
 
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You can get 120FPS at 1080 and 720 if you shoot with a 2/3" and 16mm lens, but you can only get 60fps with a 35mm or S35, I don't get why, but that's what it says. However, with physical image scaler you'd be able to scale down the 35mm image physically before it hits the sensor than that way you can get 120fps. It looks like it's all about lens size.
 
> you can only get 60fps with a 35mm or S35, I don't get why...

If you're using the full chip area for imaging (35/S35) you must read out all the pixels, even if you're going to downscale to 1080p or 720p before storing the data. It's the "reading out all the pixels" step that limits the frame rate to 60 fps. That's a limitation of the image sensor, and is not related to other downstream electronics or storage system bandwidth.
 
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