1080p 4:4:4 ?

K

kampfpudel

Active member
Hello everyone! First post here. :)

Question: It seems like the Red can shoot in 4:4:4 at 4K and 2K but not in 1080P? If so, why?
(RED´s info on sensor format options, see www.red.com)

Regards
Hans
 
Stuart English's response to this at NAB was "just shoot 2k." If you shoot 2k you also give yourself a little "wiggle room" for minor reframing in post.
 
also, I asked the same question before nab, and one of the RED guys said it probably will support 1080 4:4:4 by the time its released, but its not implemented as we speak, so they didnt put it on the site
 
emerywells@mac.com said:
Stuart English's response to this at NAB was "just shoot 2k." If you shoot 2k you also give yourself a little "wiggle room" for minor reframing in post.
Click to expand...

Correct, but You also tax harder on the drives because of the higher data stream.

Still strange I think. Should it not be harder to generate a 4K and 2K stream in 4:4:4 than 1080P, for the camera that is? Less data to handle.

And 4:4:4 could also be very useful in 720P, then to shoot in 2K seems like a little waste on disk space.

Regards
Hans
 
...then there is the question of frame rate.
According to Red You can shoot 1-120 fps in 2K (windowed).
But not in 1080P or below.
It should be easier to generate 120fps in 1080P than 2K, not to speak of 720P.
Very strange...
 
Hans Nystroem said:
According to Red You can shoot 1-120 fps in 2K (windowed).
But not in 1080P or below.
It should be easier to generate 120fps in 1080P than 2K, not to speak of 720P.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid this info it's not completely correct:

http://www.red.com/product/format-options/

EDIT -- @4:2:2 of course, 'cause @4:4:4 your info is OK! Regarding the thread subject is 4:4:4, it's alright. However, here is the 4:2:2 note.
 
Last edited:
Duly noted. :)

Nothing wrong with 4:2:2, but 4:4:4 is still the Holy Graal for FX and blue/green screen. Especially at a 1:1 compression ratio.

If the RED could do 1-120fps @ 4:4:4 in 1080P it would be the ultimate FX-camera. It would blow the HDC-950F HDCAM-SR out of the water!

But if this camera "just" would deliver 4:2:2 1-60fps @ 1080P it is still a miracle! The 4K, 2K and S35-sensor makes it...well Sony can take down the sign if Jim delivers.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -George Bernard Shaw"

I think Jim Jannard is the "unreasonable man" in this case. :)

Regards
 
Thank You Gibby. :)

And there is a good answer there:

"We could very well be able to support 1080p 4:4:4 and 720p 4:4:4, but until we've totally finalized the codec details, I'm not going to promise it to you.

Graeme
__________________
www.nattress.com - filters for FCP"

Regards
Hans
 
Hans Nystroem said:
Nothing wrong with 4:2:2, but 4:4:4 is still the Holy Graal for FX and blue/green screen. Especially at a 1:1 compression ratio.
Click to expand...

I hope you're not trying to say RED will offer a 1:1 compression ratio for 4K or even 2K. that would be unrecordable. Even 1080p uncompressed would probably need a really fast array attached to the camera. Remember even HDCAM SR is 3:1.
 
Hi taubkin.

To record 2K @ 4:4:4 and 1080P @ 4:4:4 with a 1:1 compression ratio is most possible with for example a HUGE-Raid (www.hugesystems.com).

They have a system that have a data rate of 1.5 GB/s, so I think, it is also possible to record 4K @ 4:4:4 with 1:1 compression ratio.

Expensive? Yes. Difficult? Perhaps. Possible. Yes.

But the only times You would go trough the trouble of recording 4K and 2K @ 4:4:4 would be in a studio for FX-shoots. I.e green/blue screen.

(All examples above would be for 1-25fps, above that I do not know if it would be possible with a Huge-Raid)

Regards
Hans
 
Okay. That seems fair. It's not impossible but terribly inconvenient and expensive. Well, alright. There are a few people that will do that from time to time.

Cheers.
 
If You get a perfect (if there is such a thing as "perfect") key and it is visually lossles, then it IS lossles. In the practical definition of the word. :)
Then I would also set for 3:1. :)
...or perhaps 2-2.5:1 through BitJazz´s Sheer codec.
Super codec by the way. :)

Regards
Hans
 
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