1080 /60 or 1080/50 Upgrade

Shooter

Shooter

Veteran
Seeking advice please. ( I have no experience with the 50p / 60p modes)

Embarking on little project and the request from the U.S client is shoot 1080/60.

So I am upgrading to the update and trying to get the activation for it. ( Panasonic...making me jump thru hoops for it...but thats another story!)

I havent got it yet so I cant test for myself yet.

Questions:

Shooting here in New Zealand ( Pal land 50hz).

I believe that I should shoot 1080 /50p (and supply that to the client instead of 1080 /60p) ?

The 60p is surely going to be an issue with lights etc here in Pal land?

I am certain that they can mix the 50p and the 60p they are shooting elsewhere?



If some one has the update 50/60p...could they tell me what the issues are in shooting the standard that is not default to your region ( Pal 50 /NTSC 60)

I need to provide some explanation and surety to this client.
 
If the client has requested 60p, I would most definitely shoot 60p. If you're using tungsten, or high-frequency HMI or fluo, you shouldn't have any issues with lights; they should only be problematical on magnetic HMIs or slow-frequency magnetic fluos. Even so, if you set your shutter on 1/100 that should minimize or eliminate the issues.

Try shooting 720/60p; any exposure issues will show up there the same as they would in 1080/60p...
 
EDIT: I meant, for testing purposes, you can use 720/60p right now, and that will help you determine whether you're going to have issues with 1080/60p or not. I wasn't suggesting to shoot 720 instead of 1080 for the client.
 
Thanx Barry... Good tip

( I got it in your 1st post as well) :D


This shoot will involve fluros and not much else I can control with my own lighting.

Off on a recce this morning so will test at 720p 60 as you suggested.

Why did you suggest definitely 60p? What issues arise in the U.S if they got 50p?
 
If they're mastering their whole production in 60p, then 50p won't fit on the timeline. They'd have to frame-blend and convert it, which would definitely degrade the footage. Unless the footage is solely for the purpose of slow-motion; that could work, but if that's the case, then you wouldn't need the upgrade from Panasonic anyway, you could shoot slow-mo 1080/60p right now.

But for whatever reason, the bottom line to me is: if the client specifies something, that's what I try to deliver, so I presume they have a good reason for specifying 1080/60p, and so if you were planning on delivering 50p, that's something you should clear with the client first.
 
Shooter:

Did your client request 1080/60 or 1080/60P? If they requested 1080/60 (which is what you stated), then you may not need the update, and you should clarify that with them. If they did not specifically request "P" then it's very possible they're simply talking about 1080/60i which the camera does natively without the fee-based update. You might ask them for a short sample to double-check the format.

But, no, don't shoot 50 if they want 60. They WON'T be happy.

If they don't require "P", set the SYSTEM FREQ to 50.94Hz in the OTHER FUNCTIONS menu and the REC FORMAT to PH 1080/60i, and proceed doing your usual outstanding work. If they actually need it 1080/60 Progressive, then you'll need the update.

Let us know what you find out.
 
Thanx


Their spec sheet requirement said.

Shoot in HD 1080p/60

Prefer footage to be shot at a frame rate of 60 or closest to 60. Please do not shoot in 24.

.......
Click to expand...

How would you interpret that?

I have just run a test at my studio in 720p/60 and discovered it seems to work fine...although I did find a set of older fluro units ( heritage building here) that did flicker a little. The other various fluros and incandesscents are fine.
 
I would interpret it as that they want 1080/60p. As such, I'd pursue the update.

Glad to hear you were mostly okay with the 720 test. That should answer your questions as for what will and won't work, and the rest should go quite smoothly.

Don't just look for flicker though, you also want to be on the lookout for the dreaded rolling bands, which can sometimes be difficult to see if the shutter speed is close to the frequency. Lots of folks think there's no problem with 1/48, until they go to grade the footage and they exaggerate the contrast and then -- surprise! - rolling bands. So do a big contrast stretch on your footage to see if any scrolling bands show up. If so, you should be able to rectify it by using 1/100 shutter.
 
I based my comments on the fact that you had stated they said "1080/60."

But... Even if they said "P" in there somewhere, as I'm sure you know, it's always good to do a workflow test ahead of time.

I've found a lot of people, in the post-NTSC world, get confused when any number beyond 30 is mentioned. For instance, there are production companies that have specified 59.94fps time code (which doesn't exist)! Just like there are also a lot of people who don't know that there's a difference between 23.976 and 24, and what many people refer to as 30fps is actually 29.97. It always pays to double-check, as the post bill can skyrocket (time, trouble, money, hassle) if formats don't match.

The 25P world has it much easier.

Having said that, if you go ahead and do the update, you're set whichever way they want it.
 
Thanx Guys ...all good.

Just talked to someone (in NZ) that insalled this.

There appears to be additional benefits to the upgrade over and above 50/60p.

This makes it a lot more viable for me instead of $$$$$ for a single production.

I now have a loaner available (if I commit to the upgade purchase) and a renter ( 2 camera shoot) . I will not get my upgrade package for my own camera in time.

Japan has to physically ship me a piece of paper with a ($346) number on it. F.F.S !!!!
 
I'm trying to decide whether or not to buy it. I did update to 1.24 right after getting the camera. What were those other benefits that you found out?
 
PS Mode - higher data rate would seem to be a benefit.




1. New “PS” mode (maximum 28Mbps), supporting “AVCHD Progressive” standard,
records high-quality Full HD progressive signals (1080/60p* and 1080/50p).
*59.94Hz
Click to expand...
 
Note that that data rate is only applicable to PS footage (which is 1080P at 50/60). It doesn't change anything about the other recording formats.
 
Barry, you mentioned in your AF100 book that progressive mode does a better conversion to DVD. And based on that I shoot in 1080/30p ... rather than 1080/60i. Would the upgrade to 1080/60p result in a worthwhile improvement when converting to DVD?
 
check your test footage by viewing on a wfm. Sometimes the phase diff between 60 and 50 can be too subtle to be seen by eye depending on visual content, but a wfm will show rising and falling luminance levels which is a dead give away of phase problems . adjust shutter in small degrees to minimize or eliminate phase induced luminance fluctuations.
 
Rbrookler said:
Barry, you mentioned in your AF100 book that progressive mode does a better conversion to DVD. And based on that I shoot in 1080/30p ... rather than 1080/60i. Would the upgrade to 1080/60p result in a worthwhile improvement when converting to DVD?
Click to expand...
For DVD? Not really, since you could just shoot 720/60p right now. Sure, 1080 would be better, but by the time it's rendered down to DVD I bet it would look the same.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top