10.20.09

Barry_Green said:
I'm not certain what market you're referring to, but -- the market is all about small chips right now. The 2/3" market looks deader than Jimmy Hoffa. All the buzz is in the small chips and in the DSLRs.
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I think there might be a mis-interpretation of my post.

Do people want to buy cameras with smaller chips or do they want to buy inexpensive cameras?

It seems to me people want more DOF control than what 1/3" chip cameras have to offer.

Aren't there enough 1/3" chip cameras on the market since the HD craze has begun?

And no, I will never buy that 1/3" is the new 2/3" just because they are easier to make and sell by the manufacturers.

They can get resolution, but the laws of physics and optics can not be altered. The 1/3" chip look has never been deemed as preferred by the working community, why would it be now?
 
Because budgets dictate so. NBC chose 1/3" cameras as the main cams for all their owned & operated stations. The reign of the $40k 2/3" camera is over.

Budgets have shrunk, but manufacturing costs haven't, and so they're turning to what they can afford. So now we have major broadcasters like NBC (and many of the major ABC affiliates) abandoning 2/3" and turning to 1/3". While at the same time, Panasonic is giving half-off offers on its premium 2/3" cameras.

The market has dropped out for 2/3". JVC used to make 2/3" cameras, they don't anymore. 2/3" is kind of dead right now.

I'm not arguing that bigger isn't better, because of course it is, but nobody's paying. Sure, the customer is demanding 2/3" broadcast quality at 1/3" prices, but it's not happening. The cheapest 2/3" HD camera out is the HPX500, at $14000 for just the body, and that's with a 620k pixel imager. You've got to go over $20k to get a 2/3" camera with a 1mpix imagers, and $30k to get 2/3" with a 2mpix imager. And at those price levels, people are finding 1/3" at $7k "good enough". It's the "good enough" revolution all over again.
 
Points taken.

But if they can make an EX-1 to sell for $6,000.

How far away would a 2/3" chip version of the camera be to make and sell?

I don't think it would be even $20,000.

So in some ways, the 2/3" chip market looks overpriced.

Just my observations.
 
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Probably miles away. 2/3" means bigger size and it means way more expensive glass.

I think it's possible that the EX1's price is as affordable as it is because I think that lens on it might be an adapted 1/3" lens. I have no reason to truly suspect this other than that the tolerances are so tightly managed that we had all the vignetting reports coming out early. If they've managed to take a 1/3" lens and squeeze it together with a 1/2" chip, that would cut costs substantially. May be hot air, I dunno...

But 2/3" means lots more expense because the yield on the silicon is a lot lower and the price of the glass is astronomical, in comparison to 1/3". A cheap, dirt cheap 2/3" lens costs more than an HPX300 including lens or an EX1 including lens.

But who knows, they might shock us all just a few days from now.
 
If the 2/3" market is as soft as you say it is, then it would seem they have to do something.

No point in making camera models that are not selling.
 
I laugh when I read claims of how expensive 2/3" is to make. Compared to sensors in DSLRs, 2/3" is tiny and these cameras are selling retail for less than US$1000, and they are no image slouch's.

I simply don't buy the expensive of 2/3" products, they have been a cash cow for manufacturers for years and only now the DSLR video market is finally happening we might be seeing the end of the 2/3" cash cow so a reduction in the production of 2/3" cameras.

I see the future as not 1/3", but Super35 and Full Frame 35mm single sensor cameras. If Sony & Panasonic don't start to accept that and move with the times, Canon & Nikon could be the only camera brands we will be buying in 5-10 years. Its about time too, the rediculas prices of pro video equipement has been ripe for the picking by an enteprising company for years. Red tried, but failed in my books by being too narrow minded in what they think 'we' want. Canon has no high end video market to protect other than lens, Nikon has nothing to protect, nor do other brands like Pentax & Olypmus etc
 
Despite speculation, in the wider broadcast world 2/3 is still the defacto standard, the EX series has managed to raise the bar for 1/2 inch cameras and is now widely accepted. 1/3 is a non starter for most broadcasters. Panasonic selling their 2/3 cameras at much reduced prices doesn't mean 2/3 is dead, it just means THEIR 2/3 cameras aren't selling that well!
 
Aha. Just been browsing the CML archives whilst waiting for a render:

The aperture ratio of the Reverse
illuminated Exmor-R CMOS is close to 100% which significantly improved
both, the optical and quantum efficiency... I know you know this but
others may benefit from an explanation: Not only do the larger
photosites collect more photons, but also store more charge. Exmor-R
also includes a diffusion layer similar to the HAD technology used on
CCD which helps retain and transfer most of the charge. In short,
Exmor-R plus other enhancements may eventually place CMOS on an even
plane with the most advanced, large size CCDs.
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Is the Exmor-R the R in the EX1R? So the new EX1 (which is probably not the main annoucement) would have 'em, along with better and unlabeled button placement, mini-HDMI plug and an improved grip?

I'm just staring at the little bag of giblets that came with the chicken here, which actually looks like using Spotlight on the CML list. No inside info. I only thought of 1/3" because the EX1 is probably the smallest form factor you could get a half inch chip in. I won't buy anything less than half inch, and the prospect of DSLR sized DOF doesn't suit candid or reportage, though extreme lowlight performance (backlit?) is appealing.

So let's enjoy the anticipation - much in the same mood as my son with his 'wobbly tooth': wondering if the feeling of loss and change will be exceeded by the feeling of delight and reward.

And in 48 hours we shall know, and be happy. Or 'surprised' as those in the know have said.

Keep wiggling them teeth!
 
Since Sony mentioned the EX1 and EX3 in their teaser, I tend to think that the new announcement would be something in this class. The EX1 has been out over 2 years now, so it's probably due for a refresh.

The 3D camera is much higher end, so I don't think that's what they're referring to. We'll see in a couple of days.
 
zeke said:
Looks like they dropped HDSDI out in exchange for HDMI.
Added image flip for 35mm adaptors among other things.

Sounds interesting.
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If they got rid of HD-SDI...MAJOR bummer. By hooking this cam up to a Nanoflash or
AJA Ki Pro suddenly you are sending an uncompressed 4:2:2 signal to either device. This instead of a compressed 4:2:0 to an SXS card or whatever. This makes the cameras signal output something to rival cameras that cost many times more!
 
Hmmm. I dont really see any big improvements on the EX1R. The HDMI addition is nice for using cheaper external monitors and the SD is nice for rare instances, but not enough to justify changing from my current EX1.

Oh well, let's see what the announcement brings.
 
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