JVC beating the "HDX100" at NAB?

[redindian]

However, Canon will only push the envelope so far.

Canon with its truckload of SLR lenses would be ideal to produce a 24p HD? cam with a interchangeble canon lens mount....!

Tho I am in other side of the fence (with truckload of wonderul Nikkors) I'd love to see what Canon has instore for NAB....

 

[Erik Olson]

Are there really so many on this board who are going to jump into a 720p camera that retails between 5k and 10k?

Not that the value isn't there, but is the pricepoint such that people will just rent these cameras on project-based needs or do we all need these sitting in our coat closets between gigs? Don't forget that by the time you get a worthy mattebox, follow-focus et-cetera for this new rig, you're well into another $2.5k.

If you've got a regular broadcast gig, you're not going to use your personal camera. Yeah, lots of ASC guys and their operators own their own rigs (you can see their BLs for sale on eBay all the time), but rarely do they go out as an a-camera on a show.

I'm curious to know how you all intend to use this silver-bullet when it comes out.

:undecided

e

 

[Digigenic]

I'm curious to know how you all intend to use this silver-bullet when it comes out.

e

To kill the wolf (sony) :cheesy:

Well, it’ll be at least 6 months after the camera is released and widely reviewed until a well informed decision can be made to purchase.
The problem is within that time frame; another more attractive camera is announced and/or becomes available… :undecided
And that’s why renting, as you’d suggested, would ultimately be a better decision.

With regard to the HDX though, how strange will it feel to rent the P2 media?
I think I'll feel kind of dirty :embarasse

 

[Shaw]

Well, I think that a camera capable of recording in 720p with a 4:2:2 color space will last for a VERY long time. Longer than most cameras do as of now at least. I can easily see paying a higher price for that sort of quality and longevity.

 

[Motherboard]

wasn't JVC the FIRST ONEs to put out a $3000 hd camera on the market?

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

And that’s why renting, as you’d suggested, would ultimately be a better decision.
With regard to the HDX though, how strange will it feel to rent the P2 media?
I think I'll feel kind of dirty :embarasse

Are you serious? Would you feel that way if you walked into an internet cafe and used their computer for an hour.

Curious,

Jan

 

[Digigenic]

Are you serious?

I was joking…sorry if I confused and/or offended in any way.
I thought while we were on the topic of rental, the prospect of media rental would liberate the thread into uncharted territory.
I personally think it’ll be pretty cool :thumbsup: , kind of risky, but still pretty cool.

Would you feel that way if you walked into an internet cafe and used their computer for an hour.

No, I wouldn’t feel dirty for using an internet café computer for an hour.
That’s just silly Jan.

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

Digigenic said:I personally think it’ll be pretty cool :thumbsup: , kind of risky, but still pretty cool.

The risk is no more than renting the camera, and infact probably less risky. There is alot more that go wrong in camera rental than in a P2 card. It is a striped memory array.

>No, I wouldn’t feel dirty for using an internet café computer for an hour.
That’s just silly Jan.

That was my point, on the joke, if you wouldn't feel dirty in going into an internet cafe, renting a memory card shouldn't make you feel dirty either.

Best regards,

Jan

 

[Neil Rowe]

Are there really so many on this board who are going to jump into a 720p camera that retails between 5k and 10k?
I'm curious to know how you all intend to use this silver-bullet when it comes out.

..well , i cant speak for anyone else. but i intend to own one. for those of use who work freelance or have our own production companies, its a dream come true. we can offer quality levels of DV, DVCPRO-50, or DVCPRO-HD. as well as 24p, 30p, and likely 60i. we can offer cinegamma, or video gamma. pretty much we have a camera that can tackle most jobs out there and please most clients out there. so we can supply the camera, and charge for its useage. or get the gig because we have the right equipment for the job.. all at a low cost and small form factor to suite many applications also the speed of delivery can be affected due to tapeless aquisition.

not to mention for the independent filmmakers..myself included. its a revolutionary type camera that gives us an HD DVX.. which is just killer. sure it wont make our movie better. but it might make our film be taken more seriously if its shot on HD vs mini DV. although it shouldnt be that way .. it is, to a formadable extent. you say mini DV and they say ...oh. you say HD and they say ....OK. and when your film is playing at some festival .. it will look sharper and more acceptable rather than have it distract from the film by being soft looking to some viewers.


all in all , its not really a studio camera.. its sort of a camera for independents.. whether that means independent producer or operator, or filmmaker. and i very much look forward to its arrival.

 

[Zack Birlew]

Well, I don't know if the presence of 3CCDs eliminates this problem, but here goes. Will this camera have that horrid edge enhancement like the HD1 and HD10U? If so, then I'm not buying.

Otherwise, I don't know now. This camera seems like it could kick some serious arse if done right. Panasonic's looking pretty good too with the uninhibited DVCPRO format. I know Sony must be in a fit since it's the only one in the 1080i pool. I wonder what Canon's going to do now that interchangeable lenses and 24p aren't uncommon, what can they possibly bring to the table? A P2 recording-24p filming-25mbps HDV shooting-integrated hard drive sporting-DVCAM playing-interchangeable lense camera? =D Hah!

Still, I'll have to check both of these cameras out when NAB comes around next month, assuming both cameras are going to be shown there anyways. Any idea when they'll have conferences and stuff about these cameras?

 

[lebroz]

truth is that the JVC/Pana will be close

mama matsushita has no ugly ducklings

 

[Barry_Green]

Not that the value isn't there, but is the pricepoint such that people will just rent these cameras on project-based needs or do we all need these sitting in our coat closets between gigs? Don't forget that by the time you get a worthy mattebox, follow-focus et-cetera for this new rig, you're well into another $2.5k.

I'm sure there will be both types of customers, just as there are with the DVX and XL2 already. That's why I've been saying: if you need the camera for work, and you have work that will justify getting it, then get it. If you don't need it, why get it? If you only occasionally use it, renting is probably the better course -- I rented PD150's and VX2000's through 2001 and 2002 because I'd only use them infrequently.

There's a section of the market that would say they need it to learn on. And there's some truth to that, you certainly can't practice if you don't have a camera in your hands. And perhaps the $3400 of the DVX was low enough that they could justify doing that, but $6,000 to $10,000 for a learning cam? Seems high.

But, if you're in the business, these cameras don't take long to pay for themselves. I'm shooting a reality show the next three days, and the fee from it will more than pay for my DVX again (for about the 30th time, if I'm keeping track). If the P2 camera costs $6,000, then I guess I'll have to work six days with it for it to pay itself off. So if the work's there to justify it, obviously the choice is a no-brainer. Not like with a $70,000 camera and its $30,000 of accessories... that's a hard pill to swallow no matter what. But a $6000 camera can be justified quite easily, if you have the clients and the work.

I plan on having one the first day they're availalable.

 

[Barry_Green]

mobody is bashing the Panasonic. Just that they are so late, one can't keep thinking about them when talking about HDV.

Prinicgalli, this isn't the first time you've said that Panasonic is "too late." I'm curious why you think so. I mean, the Z1's only been on the market for two months!

The PD150 was on the market for two years before the DVX came out, and the DVX beat it handily.

The Z1 will have maybe a six month lead time over the HDX. Considering that HD is still in its infancy, how can it possibly be imagined that Panasonic will be "too late"? Especially if you consider that the format Panasonic is using has been around for three years, one could say that HDV is "too late".

JVC had their 1-ccd high-def camera on the market for almost two years before the Z1 came out. Did that mean it was too late for Sony? I just don't see how someone could say that it's too late for Panasonic to come out with a DVCPRO-HD product...

 

[princigalli]

I don't even take canon in consideration because no matter how good the cameras are, not everybody can afford to work with a camera that looks like a UFO. I hope you are all right about the Panasonic and it will be worth the wait. I also care deeply about progressive image, even if I don't care about 24fps. I would be happy with progressive 25fps. No matter what people say, progressive images always look better in my experience. In fact the first company that came out with progressive was Sony, but with a demential 12.5 fps. I don't know why Sony is always committed to delivering hald the goods they promise. Of course the DVX was a great introduction but it was also a lot of luck. Even Panasonic didn't know people care so much about progressive. And even they bring out crazy stuff like the ag 30 with fake progressive, even if I would love to see frame grabs from that camera. About the lenght of my professional life... I hope it's not just 10 years, but Sony FX-1 came out in 2004 and Panasonic will come out, maybe, some time in 2006. That's at least 2 years. It reminds me of Windows longhorn. That's why I got a Mac, I have an advanced operating system NOW. And now I'm working very well with the Sony. If I like the new panasonic, my sony will go to Ebay, but only if the improvements are such that it will be worth changing my workflow again. There are thousands of people that will settle with the Sony. The indi film makers should be happy with 60i because all the film transfer facilities work very well from 60i.

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

Originally Posted by princigalli
but Sony FX-1 came out in 2004 and Panasonic will come out, maybe, some time in 2006. That's at least 2 years.

Princigalli, you make it sound as if the FX1 camera started to deliver at the beginning of 2004 , it only started to deliver in October of 2004. So to give it credit like it has been out a year in 2004 is a little ridiculous. And secondly, it is always the pictures that tell the story, and if you can get better pictures for the money, why not. The P2HD camera is not too late, but rather right on time. People would not be ready to move away from tape a year ago, but I sense a more positive environs today toward the idea, and perhaps this is the cause of such fine products as the Firestore and the reactions that we have had from our P2 customers.

Anyhow, just keep your hat on, make money with the cameras you have and you will see which camera is the one you should buy.

Best regards,

Jan

 

[princigalli]

Well I like the idea of P2 cards a lot better than tapes. Tapes are very primitive. I don't know why everyone wsa complaining about tapes. If you need more time, just back up to hard disk. Having said that, if the Panasonic comes out in October 2006 (which I am sure it will) then it will be exactly 2 years later. Two years is a long time and I am already working happily with the FX1. At the moment it is the only camera that does native 16/9 (except Canon, but I don't work with cameras that look like UFOs). I film everything in HDV and downconvert to excellent and beautiful SD, or even better edit all in HDV and make DVD directly from there. If Panasnic camera will be nicer for me, I don't care I will switch. JVC is just too big and too expensive. If I have to spend $30000 I will spend $60000 and get a varicam. 30, 60, what's the big difference! But by the time Panasonic comes out, I will have plenty of nice 16/9 progressive looking SD footage that can easily be converted to HDV and will look great on film.

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

Having said that, if the Panasonic comes out in October 2006 (which I am sure it will) then it will be exactly 2 years later.

This is where you are without a question totally wrong. It will be much sooner than this.

Best,

jan

 

[Isaac_Brody]

Princigalli it sounds like you're having a case of buyers remorse. As Barry and other people have stated, these are only tools. When another tool comes along that fits your needs better, you can always switch.

 

[Barry_Green]

That's what Princigalli just said -- if a better tool comes along, he'll be free to switch.

Actually I agree with his reasoning, just not his dates. If you have work to do now, don't sit around and wait for the next great thing to come along, get the tool and do the work. The only area where I take exception with his most recent post is the same place that Jan took exception with it -- it won't be October 2006! I'm betting on Oct. 10, 2005, three years to the day from when the DVX100 was first released.

 

[Robert_Niemann]

I am very sure, that the new P2 camera still will be out this year, because Panasonic has gotten the big deal to provide the whole video technology for the forthcoming Olympic Winter Games in Turin. All will be filmed in HD and with P2. Imagine all the P2 cards Panasonic has to manufacture... PRICE DROPPING!!! Maybe, we will see Jan somewhere on the ski-run.