No info on the 10bit yet. The R10 got my attention but I have a problem with the crop especially that it's already a cropped sensor. Otherwise I would get one.
Canon R6 mk2
- Thread starter Thomas Smet
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No info on the 10bit yet. The R10 got my attention but I have a problem with the crop especially that it's already a cropped sensor. Otherwise I would get one.
NorBro
Major Contributor
The crop is only in 4K/60p and I bought it for that and for one job where I needed to snipe some slow motion b-roll at a conference. [Usually would rent but a better full-frame with a longer lens cost more than half of the entire purchase.]
When you're dealing with that kind of reach everything is shallow (especially with a fast lens), so sensor size/any crop in this particular case was irrelevant to me - but, yeah, if you wanted to go wider and shallower, it's out of the question.
I'm selling this camera so take my words with salt, but I think this is Canon's best they ever made for less than $900 if one is okay with a few annoyances.
For $900, it's really good.
When you're dealing with that kind of reach everything is shallow (especially with a fast lens), so sensor size/any crop in this particular case was irrelevant to me - but, yeah, if you wanted to go wider and shallower, it's out of the question.
I'm selling this camera so take my words with salt, but I think this is Canon's best they ever made for less than $900 if one is okay with a few annoyances.
For $900, it's really good.
For $900 it's a nice b-roll cam, are you selling it because of the 4k 60p crop?
NorBro
Major Contributor
I wrote I purchased it because of that, haha...nah, just selling it cuz I got too many cameras and don't need it anymore right now.
$879 is the brand new price (at least at B&H), used is even less.
So if someone finds a nice little R10 for $700 or so - whether it's this one or another one - with Canon color science and DPAF II...that's sweet.
$879 is the brand new price (at least at B&H), used is even less.
So if someone finds a nice little R10 for $700 or so - whether it's this one or another one - with Canon color science and DPAF II...that's sweet.
I thought the crop "feature" was for a one time project. I have the R and it also crops in 4k but it's a full frame so I end up with APSC. But losing a 1.6 on a an APSC is way too much unless I am doing wildlife or sports. I mostly use mirrorless for b-roll and photography but it's getting tempting to build a rig for interviews for their superior images compared to my 1" camcorders!
NorBro
Major Contributor
Yeah, it was but I'm not selling it because of that. :2vrolijk_08:
The wildlife and sports comment is actually what most of my 60p slow-motion b-roll ends up being...shots of wildlife humans from further away so I'm not invading their territory, lol.
The screenshots below are 24p and 60p...that's with a 17mm about 2' away. I would never be that close so take that example and use a 35mm or 50mm and be about 20' away and I can get some nice, tighter reaction shots in 60p, or pop back out to 24p for wider moments (or obviously just use a zoom).
I don't want to defend crops because they should not exist by themselves, EVER. But when you can press a button to engage them or use something like Sony's Clear Image Zoom then they can be useful.
I also had the R but I found the crop noisy and at that time I paid 3x the amount compared to something like the R10 so it's just ludicrous (and that's why people were always so irritated by Canon because of their constant limitations but a lot of that has changed with the times).
[P.S. Forum crushed them a little but this is about the crop.]
The wildlife and sports comment is actually what most of my 60p slow-motion b-roll ends up being...shots of wildlife humans from further away so I'm not invading their territory, lol.
The screenshots below are 24p and 60p...that's with a 17mm about 2' away. I would never be that close so take that example and use a 35mm or 50mm and be about 20' away and I can get some nice, tighter reaction shots in 60p, or pop back out to 24p for wider moments (or obviously just use a zoom).
I don't want to defend crops because they should not exist by themselves, EVER. But when you can press a button to engage them or use something like Sony's Clear Image Zoom then they can be useful.
I also had the R but I found the crop noisy and at that time I paid 3x the amount compared to something like the R10 so it's just ludicrous (and that's why people were always so irritated by Canon because of their constant limitations but a lot of that has changed with the times).
[P.S. Forum crushed them a little but this is about the crop.]
My main problem with crops in higher frame rates is that the image gets softer, the R10 seems to be holding sharpness just fine from the stills you shared! I have the RF 16mm 2.8 that I use on the R in 4k which give me about a 24mm. If I was to use it with an R10 I should get about a 35mm which is not too bad @ $900.
NorBro
Major Contributor
60p is just as nice as 24p, no loss in sharpness or at least not any that would matter like back in the day with some of these cameras.
My biggest technical pain most of my career since I started shooting in 4K in 2014 was that it took so long to get affordable 4K/60p. At that time I actually was using a 4K/60p camera which was the BM URSA and then I had a 1DX Mark II for a bit, but always wanted smaller and lighter and cheaper - and it's nice to see cameras like the R10 existing for the new generation (and for a night & day lower cost).
I think this might be the cheapest 4K/60p camera on the market right now. The crop would put it in line with the $1K-ish MFT G9 and the Pocket for a bit more, but the Canon has the DPAF II.
Sony doesn't get into 4K/60p until around that $1800 mark (FX30) which is quite a bit more (but also with way more video features).
My biggest technical pain most of my career since I started shooting in 4K in 2014 was that it took so long to get affordable 4K/60p. At that time I actually was using a 4K/60p camera which was the BM URSA and then I had a 1DX Mark II for a bit, but always wanted smaller and lighter and cheaper - and it's nice to see cameras like the R10 existing for the new generation (and for a night & day lower cost).
I think this might be the cheapest 4K/60p camera on the market right now. The crop would put it in line with the $1K-ish MFT G9 and the Pocket for a bit more, but the Canon has the DPAF II.
Sony doesn't get into 4K/60p until around that $1800 mark (FX30) which is quite a bit more (but also with way more video features).
I wonder how much better is the focus on the R10 compared to the R? I want to stop by my local Best Buy and check it out! If the upcoming R8 is a full frame @ $1500 I am getting one, even if it has a crop:shocked:
NorBro
Major Contributor
It's better, but if 95% of one's use is for someone sitting who's barely moving then it doesn't matter and something even worse could be good enough, you know?
R8 likely won't ship until April/May and I got a R10 with your name on it, $750 with an extra Canon battery.
rogar-Laugh(LBG):
R8 likely won't ship until April/May and I got a R10 with your name on it, $750 with an extra Canon battery.
rogar-Laugh(LBG):It's better, but if 95% of one's use is for someone sitting who's barely moving then it doesn't matter and something even worse could be good enough, you know?
R8 likely won't ship until April/May and I got a R10 with your name on it, $750 with an extra Canon battery.
I should buy your R10 and C200B, Buy one Get one Free :shocked: I just bought the Atomos Zatto for it's ability to record H.264 in 1080p to give life to my older HMC80 which only records AVCD.
They are, but for low budget conferences they are fine. Here is the latest leaks for the R8.
NorBro
Major Contributor
I didn't watch it but the next Canon I would be interested in would be a decked out R5 Mark II. I really don't like spending +$2Kish when something for -$1Kish is close enough, and would rather spend $4Kish for a bunch of extra stuff (and bragging rights).
I don't know if that makes sense but I just feel like it's a waste because those mid cams are kind of mediocre cams and why not just get something a bit more mediocre that kind of does the same job or something MUCH better for a couple K more...and maybe even get a couple K more. :happy:
I don't know if that makes sense but I just feel like it's a waste because those mid cams are kind of mediocre cams and why not just get something a bit more mediocre that kind of does the same job or something MUCH better for a couple K more...and maybe even get a couple K more. :happy:
Thomas Smet
Veteran
At first I dismissed the R8 because I thought it would be hobbled by Canon. From what it looks like however it has most of the same video features of the R6 mk2.
oversampled 24p and 60p 4k video full sensor
Clog3 10bit and HDR PQ 10bit
False color
2 hour record time and not limited to 30 minutes for at least up to 30p
No over heating after 2 hours for 4k 25p from what I was in the Gordon Lang review. He did that USB power since the battery only lasts 65 minutes.
Clean HDMI out for 4k video standards.
Same AF features and performance as the R6 mk2.
Only thing that really seems missing for video is the external raw output and IBIS. Great $1,500 tripod or gimbal camera that perfectly matches the R6 mk2. Same exact sensor and processing. How many 10bit cameras does Sony have for $1,500? How many can handle 4k60 full sensor? Canon is really hitting some home runs here. The R5, R6 mk2, R7 and now R8 are some very solid video options.
The R8 is a killer b camera or backup solution to the R6 or R5. I can see many getting a R6 mk2 and a R8 for backup video and photos or a second camera. The R8 is also a good compliment to the R5 for only $1,500. Provides better 4k 60p quality and still provides over sampling and is a good match to the R5 shooting 4k.
If I didn't really want the external raw I would get the R8 instead of a R6 mk2 to compliment my current R6. Darn you Canon! Now I need to buy a R6 mk2 and a R8. In terms of video the R8 is better than my R6. Meaning I think its value just plummeted past $1,500. I should really sell it quick while I still can.
I still see some value in the R7 as well for the extra reach without sacrificing resolution. The R7 and R8 are actually a great pair to have for only $500 more than just a R6 mnk2.
It took Canon a long time to get here but I feel they are really competitive now. Now if they could just focus on dynamic range which has been their weakness for a long time. I know they are trying to protect their cinema line but how many Canon cinema cameras are used out there? They cannot hold back dynamic range forever.
oversampled 24p and 60p 4k video full sensor
Clog3 10bit and HDR PQ 10bit
False color
2 hour record time and not limited to 30 minutes for at least up to 30p
No over heating after 2 hours for 4k 25p from what I was in the Gordon Lang review. He did that USB power since the battery only lasts 65 minutes.
Clean HDMI out for 4k video standards.
Same AF features and performance as the R6 mk2.
Only thing that really seems missing for video is the external raw output and IBIS. Great $1,500 tripod or gimbal camera that perfectly matches the R6 mk2. Same exact sensor and processing. How many 10bit cameras does Sony have for $1,500? How many can handle 4k60 full sensor? Canon is really hitting some home runs here. The R5, R6 mk2, R7 and now R8 are some very solid video options.
The R8 is a killer b camera or backup solution to the R6 or R5. I can see many getting a R6 mk2 and a R8 for backup video and photos or a second camera. The R8 is also a good compliment to the R5 for only $1,500. Provides better 4k 60p quality and still provides over sampling and is a good match to the R5 shooting 4k.
If I didn't really want the external raw I would get the R8 instead of a R6 mk2 to compliment my current R6. Darn you Canon! Now I need to buy a R6 mk2 and a R8. In terms of video the R8 is better than my R6. Meaning I think its value just plummeted past $1,500. I should really sell it quick while I still can.
I still see some value in the R7 as well for the extra reach without sacrificing resolution. The R7 and R8 are actually a great pair to have for only $500 more than just a R6 mnk2.
It took Canon a long time to get here but I feel they are really competitive now. Now if they could just focus on dynamic range which has been their weakness for a long time. I know they are trying to protect their cinema line but how many Canon cinema cameras are used out there? They cannot hold back dynamic range forever.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
thomas I did a topic on the r8 (from the pov of an r6 owner) https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/hdslrs/canon-ff/5699878-canon-r8
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Ended up going in another direction. Just ordered a R5 after all my comparisons trying to say the R6 is better. I still feel most of those are valid but I decided the R5 just felt like more of an actual upgrade for me. Having internal raw is a nice convenience vs only external and its nice to have 8k for oversampling and 45 MP for photos will have a larger impact when I need it.
Plus there are features the R6 Mk2 does not have like DCI, all-I and so forth. An over sampled crop mode is nice as well.
Briefly considered an original Panasonic S5 which right now I found for as low as $1,250 used and some consider the image quality slightly better. Ruled it out because I just didn’t need the slightly extra dynamic range enough to sacrifice what I like about the Canon quality. Plus I have a lot of RF lenses now and my current R6 will compliment the R5 much better.
I have grown to like C-log3 and developed some tools and workflow to get the most out of it. Now it will be even better with 8k, internal 8k raw or external 5k ProRes raw to my Ninja.
Also bought a new Asus Pro Art HDR display with 1200 nits of brightness I can’t say enough good things about. This 32” beast is as good and better than my 14” and 13” XDR displays when using them for HDR-1000. It’s so nice seeing everything in 32” UHD HDR now. The 87% rec2020 color is mind blowing and really does the rec2020 and CinemaGamut from the Canon cameras justice. Im now 100% HDR and will never go back. Only thing I can’t do is view true 8k but I can live with that for now. I’m still a fan of 4K delivery and the 8k from the R5 for me is a means to massage a 4K master a bit more.
Plus there are features the R6 Mk2 does not have like DCI, all-I and so forth. An over sampled crop mode is nice as well.
Briefly considered an original Panasonic S5 which right now I found for as low as $1,250 used and some consider the image quality slightly better. Ruled it out because I just didn’t need the slightly extra dynamic range enough to sacrifice what I like about the Canon quality. Plus I have a lot of RF lenses now and my current R6 will compliment the R5 much better.
I have grown to like C-log3 and developed some tools and workflow to get the most out of it. Now it will be even better with 8k, internal 8k raw or external 5k ProRes raw to my Ninja.
Also bought a new Asus Pro Art HDR display with 1200 nits of brightness I can’t say enough good things about. This 32” beast is as good and better than my 14” and 13” XDR displays when using them for HDR-1000. It’s so nice seeing everything in 32” UHD HDR now. The 87% rec2020 color is mind blowing and really does the rec2020 and CinemaGamut from the Canon cameras justice. Im now 100% HDR and will never go back. Only thing I can’t do is view true 8k but I can live with that for now. I’m still a fan of 4K delivery and the 8k from the R5 for me is a means to massage a 4K master a bit more.
Peter C.
Veteran
Are you going mod it to extend the record time before it over heats?
If you can believe I ran into over heating on my A7IV on a recent project. I built a little hack, cutting a metal plate and putting where the lcd flips out, acts like a heat sync. I could get more fancy and rig up an aluminum sync. Any of these cameras that don't have fans build up heat and eventually will shut down.
If you can believe I ran into over heating on my A7IV on a recent project. I built a little hack, cutting a metal plate and putting where the lcd flips out, acts like a heat sync. I could get more fancy and rig up an aluminum sync. Any of these cameras that don't have fans build up heat and eventually will shut down.
And soon 400 MPX photos. Allegedly.
Presumably, the new version doesn't.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
R5 apparently does much better now with over heating. It can still happen but it's supposed to be even better than it is on my R6. Thats why I want two Canon bodies however. Just in case. I think most FF cameras shooting 4k have the potential to overheat. It all depends how far they push the limits. This is why m43 was always a step ahead. Much less heat and much easier to move to more advanced formats.
Honestly it is what it is and I have learned to accept it and keep a backup around. Now that backup doesn't have to be a P4k for me.
No mods for me. I will use it as is and if it overheats switch to the R6 until the R5 cools down. Both shooting 4k HQ will be great together. If I have to shoot 8k or raw well then I'm SOL. I don't shoot a lot of long continuous shots anymore and if I need to well both cameras still stop every 30 minutes anyway. Thats what my Ninja V is for which also gives me a easier to manage 5k cropped raw option from the R5 for continuous recording.
Either way I'm covered now and no longer have to worry about it.