Canon R6 mk2

Since Technics was a part of the Panasonic/Matsush/ta family, there used to be a considerable amount of audio gear made under different brand names but under the same corporate umbrella.
 
We still don't have a lot of details on the external raw from the R6 mk2 but what we have heard is that it may be 10bit processed much like the R5 is for external raw. The cropped 3.7k is apparently bumped back up to 12bit processing since it can readout a lot faster. That really low rolling shutter comes at a cost and thats the 10bit processing of the raw.

With that said one of the interesting details of the R5 external raw is that Atomos can record the raw data with clog2 which the R6 and R5 do not have internally. clog2 is only really useful on higher dynamic range sensors and can introduce a lot of extra noise because of this. Some do prefer the color potential of clog2 however and since Prores raw is really good at recording fine noise there is potential to pull out some extra stops of detail from the shadows with really good post noise reduction. CineD even found this to be the case of the R5 external raw which is also 10bit. Because it uses clog2 there is a really large noise floor but there is detail hidden in that noise.

So there is some quality potential there from shooting external Prores raw from the R6 mk2. How much is hard to say. Plus doing noise reduction on raw 6k before scaling down to 4k should retain a lot more fine detail that can be lost with noise reduction.

Sounds like a lot of effort to squeeze a bit more quality out of the R6 but it's nice that potential might be there. Not sure how important that is considering I'm already impressed with the 10bit HEVC video from the R6.

I would be curious to see if the 12bit 3.7k cropped external raw has any better DR since it's using clog2.

I still think 12 stops is a good amount however. Thats a lot over what SDR typically is and is most cases more than enough to give a range t work with. On the HDR side it could be better but since I'm only really targeting up to 1000 nits I'm already getting close with the 750 nits HDR PQ hits straight out of the camera. Clog3 can push that a bit more to 1000 nits but it also has a lot more noise. The HEVC clog3 is compressed enough where extra NR in post is not as clean as I would like. Its fine but the damage is already done.
 
I remember some review was saying they suspected Raw sent to the Atomos was line skipped because it looked softer compared to the internal. The only benefit was to wring out extra dynamic range. My work doesn't warrant raw so I'm unconcerned my the minutia of it.
 
Peter C. said:
I remember some review was saying they suspected Raw sent to the Atomos was line skipped because it looked softer compared to the internal. The only benefit was to wring out extra dynamic range. My work doesn't warrant raw so I'm unconcerned my the minutia of it.
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I have never heard that before. How could it be line skipped for 8k external raw when there are only enough lines for 8k raw?

If talking the 5k cropped raw I'm not sure about that one. Does the R5 even record internal cropped raw? I think the 5k raw is for external only.

The reason it can't be line skipped is because it is in fact cropped. You can't have line skipping and cropping at the same time. It's one or the other. I guess one could but then it would essentially be 2.5k raw and that would not just look soft but really bad and pixelated. If line skipping was used to get from 8k to 5k we wouldn't have a crop. It would be full readout of the sensor but every other line. Plus that would yield 4k like the standard 4k mode is on the R5. Not 5k which is a APSC crop. Skipping an uneven amount of lines to go from 8k to 5k would look horrendous.

This is why we should never trust reviews 100%. They are 50% guesses and assumptions presented as facts.

If I had to take a guess I would say the external 5k looks softer because its 5k and not 8k like the internal raw. If they were comparing 8k thats impossible. You can't line skip a 8k sensor for 8k raw. Well you could but it wouldn't just look softer. Even pixel binning would be impossible really. Pixel binning turns a full sensor into a smaller size. a 5k crop means a crop or only a 5k portion is being used. You can no longer pixel bin that 5k portion to make 5k video.

I have no clue why it looks softer if that is even accurate or true. Since I have never seen or heard a single review say that I'm going to assume its user error.
 
I’m referring to filming R6ii full frame 4K . Not sure whether it’s a cripple or to reduce the load on the processor. Its common for these type of cameras to disable features or limit them under higher demand situations. For example when filming high frame rates many cameras disable audio or auto focus. When outputting video to hdmi the lcd turns off. I’ve heard over heating when outputting to hdmi for long recordings. It must demand resources so it wouldn’t be that surprising if it reduced the bandwidth or resolution of the output.
 
Peter C. said:
I’m referring to filming R6ii full frame 4K . Not sure whether it’s a cripple or to reduce the load on the processor. Its common for these type of cameras to disable features or limit them under higher demand situations. For example when filming high frame rates many cameras disable audio or auto focus. When outputting video to hdmi the lcd turns off. I’ve heard over heating when outputting to hdmi for long recordings. It must demand resources so it wouldn’t be that surprising if it reduced the bandwidth or resolution of the output.
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Have not heard that yet. Atomos still doesn't have the external 6k support so I'm not sure how an early reviewer could have tested that yet. As for internal 4k there could be a standard mode and a HQ mode like the R5 has. Standard mode uses pixel binning so it's not as detailed. HQ mode uses the full 8k sensor to over sample and scale down to 4k. The HQ mode is harder on the camera however and limited to 30p.

I have not yet heard a single rumor that 4k 60p on the R6 mk2 uses the standard mode. It's not mentioned anywhere in the manual either. Every review I have watched indicated the over sampled 4k from 24p or 60p was great.
 
Another nice thing about the R6 mk2 is the camera can now shoot video with any dial mode. Shutter priority or aperture priority. Even the custom dial modes. We always had that on the Panasonic side since the GH1 but Canon always had an odd way of treating video.

This right there alone might make the R6 mk2 worth the upgrade for other Canon users. We can now shoot video and lock in shutter speed and let the camera auto adjust aperture and ISO.

The manual confirms HDMI raw is 6000 wide and not 6192 wide like B&H mistakenly had listed in their specs. Oh well no big loss really and still impressive 6k raw up to 60p.

Only downside to the new way the R6 mk2 does the dials is in order to shoot a photo you have to stop recording video, switch the new video dial to photo mode and then adjust the regular dial to your desired photo shooting mode. A bit of extra effort vs just turning the dial on the R6 from movie mode to the photo mode of your choice. Not a big deal but hybrid shooters will have an extra step now.

Cinema Gamut appears to now be converted to BT2020 on HDMI out which will fix an external display issue where HDMI cannot support the cinema gamut when using Clog3 and the colors are a bit off. Another huge video upgrade for those that ran into this issue with Atomos. We had to only use BT2020 gamut when external recording because of this. Now at least now on non recorders shooting internally with cinema gamut will look better with external monitors. Doesn't really help with external recording since it's going to be BT2020 no matter what now. Might as well just select BT2020 still and not worry about a conversion.
 
DLD said:
So, the auto focus on S5MKII is supposed to be fixed (i.e, working like it should with 779 PD cross points), The "basic" model with X-AVC is $2,000, the one with the external ProRes is $2,200 (there's one at $2,300 too?).

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._dc_s5miix_ff_mirrorless_camera.html/overview

Let's give Allard a plug too - https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/01/...ase-hybrid-af/
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Yay. Too bad they still have that L mount with not much option for adapting other lenses with electronic control. Sigma is making some nice affordable L mount options now but its still a bit risky in my opinion to invest in L mount glass at this point.
 
I'm actually super impressed with what I see of the Panasonic so far. Still limited to a crop for 4k 60p however. After having 4k60p full sensor on Canon it's tough to go back now. That PDAF video from Panasonic is super impressive. Could Panasonic after years of research perfected AF like they perfected IBIS?

For those ok with up to 30p this camera seems almost perfect. For everything else it's essentially a APSC camera. Keep in mind there are those that still find 60 fps video to be normal. If one only likes the look of 60 fps video most FF options cannot really be considered 4k or FF options. There is a compromise of either shooting HD or essentially only ever shooting video as a APSC camera. Kind of makes a FF camera rather pointless right now for those. Thats where Fuji really shines right now. Thats the one advantage Canon has right now on the FF side.

Still this is super impressive and maybe I need to rethink Panasonic now. I can get a second camera for almost the same cost as the R6 mk2. Can't use any of my lenses but Panasonic finally has some affordable primes. I can start with the 50mm f1.8 and see how much I prefer the system to Canon RF.

It's also nice Panasonic supports both external ProRes Raw and external Braw. Prores Raw is awesome for FCP users but when using FCP I tend to not be working on projects that need heavy grading or VFX. All that stuff would be in Resolve/Fusion anyway. Another reason I'm keeping my P4k for now. Braw just makes more sense if I'm doing that kind of work. I don't have a Video Assist but its nice knowing thats at least an option in the future.

I typically only shoot 24p but being forced to have a crop for 4k 60 really bothers me. For some HDR situations I'm starting to prefer 60p since it's creating hyper realism. Going back to a crop for that seems like going backwards.
 
One other advantage to the R6 mk2. Built in false color. While we have likely mentioned this earlier there is one factor we did not mention. False color on monitor devices tends to be designed for rec709 values and a one size fits all set of colors and percentages. That doesn't always translate to log formats as well. For example if middle gray is 34.3% with clog3 that falls in the Atomos dark gray color which covers 24 to 43 IRE. Thats a massive range of values to fall in the middle with no ability to adjust those colors. Its almost impossible to dial in exposure and nail a perfect 34.3% because of this. Even Panasonic Vlog at 42 IRE is stuck in the dark gray swatch. At least with Vlog we can push the exposure until we see green (43 IRE) and then back down one notch to dial that back to around 42 IRE. Still the generic one size fits all false color range is not as good as it could be for log formats.

This is true of any log format where the false color values may not map as well as they could. Expensive monitors allow false colors to be adjusted so they better match the production or log format. The R6 mk2 is a rare device with not only false color built in but a color/value range that is perfectly optimized for clog3. Its a great exposure tool to have and will make shooting log much easier without the need to add an external monitor.

I hope one day Atomos gives us the ability to adjust false color values. They have the processing power for it. Until then the R6 mk2 may be one of the best ways to use false color with log. Especially for those that hate using an external monitor.
 
Usually one of two reasons (or both):

(1) They have more important things to work on.
(2) There is an agreement with Canon to delay it until then (like because of business or it's not ready/optimized yet).
 
Rumor has it Canon will release the R8 on the 8th at $1500. If the rumor specs are true it will be a great video camera. Full frame with 4k at 60p down sampled from 6k. No stabilization but hope it will have dual sd card slots. Supposed to be the same sensor as in the R6 II.
 
Just saw that on CR - even without the IS the Canon cameras keep getting better for less money.
 
NorBro said:
Just saw that on CR - even without the IS the Canon cameras keep getting better for less money.
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I will definitely buy one if it's full frame, I am just afraid they are going to make it a single sd slot. Otherwise, how will the R6 II and R7 compete at that price?
 
Besides any crops or resolution/framerate limitations (or overheating...would they dare?!), usually the AF and IBIS (not applicable in this case) aren't as good as the higher models. But on the note of AF, I have a Canon R10 and I am really impressed with its AF for less than $1K so maybe that's behind us now.

For video, besides possibly having better/more video tools (and external RAW/IBIS/etc), the R6 II may still have better fine detail and IQ (but also probably not enough for anyone to really care).

R7 will also have the IBIS/etc, and 32MP for stills.

Did they say the R8 will have 10-bit? Could be a 'got-ya' but probably not.

It's always a trade-off...you take this, I'll take that. I'll remove this, you remove that...voila, we now have multiple cameras for sale.
 
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