AR Glasses - has anyone used them to monitor camera?
- Thread starter ahalpert
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
CP
Im aware that both these pics and thier operators are making huge errors
Clearly the right hand should be around the CofM and the left used to point the rig
But I think the concept of gimbal on monopod with bottom mass has value
Im aware that both these pics and thier operators are making huge errors
Clearly the right hand should be around the CofM and the left used to point the rig
But I think the concept of gimbal on monopod with bottom mass has value
ahalpert
Major Contributor
The main issue is that I will come within 2 inches of the artwork, which is a careful matter. Someone standing there or a sandbag will be too much of a buffer. Anything more subtle like landing on a tape mark would make me nervous although in theory it could work. But sometimes I'm walking backwards and there's a sculpture on a pedestal just to my right and then I back up to a painting hanging on a wall. Then I might go sideways along the painting and around the sculpture. Could be a lot of tape marks or guidelines to set, especially since im in a hurry. and the floor might make the picture later.
I don't have a problem seeing the floor (monitor mounted on wrist and formerly mounted low on gimbal) or what's beside me, really just behind me.
Once we were weaving through a gallery of glass sculptures on pedestals that had tapered ends projecting off the pedestals. That was nervewracking and I just said screw it and kept to the center of the passages between them. Extra challenging to avoid, and extra fragile
I'm not currently dealing with fatigue issues. We used to do 20-30 min long takes for some of these videos and with enough of those in a day it became an issue. I think probably a vest would have helped. I wouldn't add weight to my current rig just to lower the center of gravity. And for normal operation, I wouldn't want a monopod sticking out the bottom because if you tilt the rig forward like in your picture, you're cutting into the clearance behind you
But I bring a couple monopods of different lengths with me and if i need to get height on a particular shot, I screw it on
There may be some advantages to these AR glasses over other types of video goggles. It seems like you can overlay the monitor on top of your regular field of view at a chosen opacity and push it to the corner of your vision if you like, and see it with both eyes. Maybe those facets will make it more manageable. I'm very curious. It seems like I could feed directly to it from my phone via usb-c, so I think that in theory it shouldn't interfere with the wireless feed and control my phone is getting from camera
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Another stupid idea.. (but im not joking)
rear view monitoring like a reversing car.. gaffer a gopro to your bum.. and have a monitor from it next to your regular one.
the sadbag marks are about 200g and the size of a sausage.. not full bags!
Rember with a 'long rig' you can operate it in lo mode so that the stick is up high not sticking out the back
In terms of mass.. yes if you could put the batts and monitor as countermass you would not need to add mass.. thats why it is so stupid that these gimbals have the battert onboard and not chance to play its position.
My movi im working seperation of the battery from the rig - Id prefer two long lasting vlocks in a backpack (you need two to get 24v)
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Ultimately i think that they should make someone available so you dont bump into thier art. At minimum.
rear view monitoring like a reversing car.. gaffer a gopro to your bum.. and have a monitor from it next to your regular one.
the sadbag marks are about 200g and the size of a sausage.. not full bags!
Rember with a 'long rig' you can operate it in lo mode so that the stick is up high not sticking out the back
In terms of mass.. yes if you could put the batts and monitor as countermass you would not need to add mass.. thats why it is so stupid that these gimbals have the battert onboard and not chance to play its position.
My movi im working seperation of the battery from the rig - Id prefer two long lasting vlocks in a backpack (you need two to get 24v)
--
Ultimately i think that they should make someone available so you dont bump into thier art. At minimum.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
That's interesting, this might be one of the few areas where gimbals have an advantage. If you're operating solely with the joystick (as opposed to pan/tilt follow with the grip) then framing orientation doesn't change when you're going in reverse. Occasionally I'll be walking backwards, for example down a sidewalk with a lot of obstacles or pedestrians, and just say screw it and rotate around mid-shot and go don juan. Even if I'm in pan follow mode (I rarely use tilt follow mode), I can lock the orientation with the trigger and then spin around. I'm definitely not as good filming in reverse especially since the camera positioning and pathway get confusing, but it sounds like it's harder on steadicam
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
the reason a long rig is often held at an angle is it allows you to move the cofm closer to your core and reduce fatigue quite radically
ahalpert
Major Contributor
That sounds like that would work. Very clever. I think I'd sooner try the ar glasses but the gopro should work nicely once youre accustomed to it. And you would have the advantage of nearly 360-degree awareness simultaneously. Could probably do it with a chest/back harness. I have the gopro with fisheyes on both sides. A bit of extra rigging for starters and then perhaps no further fussing, although now you need a 2nd monitor. Very interesting
Right but i still feel like either ill stop myself too soon or be very nervous about my bum and elbow positioning if i put the mark right at the hairy edge of where i can go
Right but in the picture there he had it at his waist and sticking out the back. For wedding dancing i often go on a long monopod for high-angle shots. Then if i want to go low angle and i can swing the rig upside down and get the sensor a viewfinder's height from the floor
To keep the weight down, i just use the standard mirrorless camera internal batteries. And my gimbals are the dinky pistol grip ones - ronin-s (plus side grip), ronin rsc2, 2x weebill-s. The weebill batteries are in the wrong place but super light. The Ronin batteries are heavier but below the center of gravity
They do, I just don't want them there. They stop me too soon
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I'm not sure this makes sense to me but if it does im pretty sure it only makes sense if you're using a vest. My wrists are the weak point in my system so I'm inclined to hold the rig upright. But close to body and keep the arms low, like you said. Much easier to do this with a lightweight pistol grip gimbal than a heavy underslung one I would think
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Sam, I fully agree with you about the crappy design of stick gimbals being top-heavy. The Tiffen Steadimate is a solid solution to this (in theory--have never used it but it makes sense when I look at it). In 2017I knocked around with an early Zhiyun for some stunt shots on one of my series and immediately starting thinking about how to redistribute the mass so it would feel more comfortable which in turn would make operating easier, see pix below.
Entertaining of a concept the "ArseCam" is, I'm pretty sure it would be a liability in practice. Two monitors is a lot of data and I think it would take a long time to learn how to interpret and translate the information on a backup camera so you really know where you are at all times. I could be wrong, but that's my instinct.
Entertaining of a concept the "ArseCam" is, I'm pretty sure it would be a liability in practice. Two monitors is a lot of data and I think it would take a long time to learn how to interpret and translate the information on a backup camera so you really know where you are at all times. I could be wrong, but that's my instinct.
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
nice little rigs 
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ill show my movi/steadicam sometime but its stil after years a work in progress. similar to steadimate. you seem to have to adjust the arm very carefully or it will run away from you. (usually my arm is attached to rickshaw/car so you cant noodle it by adjustment of the body position.
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ill show my movi/steadicam sometime but its stil after years a work in progress. similar to steadimate. you seem to have to adjust the arm very carefully or it will run away from you. (usually my arm is attached to rickshaw/car so you cant noodle it by adjustment of the body position.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I'm probably not going to try it because it sounds a little hairy. But it's the only alternative so far that satisfies my cost and speed requirements. I wouldn't use it all the time. Most of the time, I would just throw a glance over the shoulder. I would only look at the asscam monitor when backing right up to something. I imagine that learning to use it would be like learning to use a rearview camera in a car. That took a little time with the first one I had, and I usually gave myself more room behind myself than I needed. That would be my biggest fear: that I wouldn't end up exploiting all my space anyway. But that seems more likely than bumping into something.
I gave a deeper look to the reviews of the AR glasses and I've decided what I really want is a cross between that product and the Vufine+ (which is actually marketed for drone/camera operating):
The NREAL sunglasses try to be both a translucent screen, or a screen with an opaque background (if you put the included light shield over the sunglasses). And either way, the screen is designed to have a large apparent viewing angle. But what I'd want is a small viewing angle with an opaque background, built directly into a glasses frame like the NREAL, offering the same image to each eye but without the sunglasses darkening my environmental view. But I'm mighty tempted to buy the NREALs anyway and see if I can make them work for me.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Hairy ass cam - it gets worse
Apple may finally debut its mixed reality headset this spring - The Verge
Apple's approach to AR is likely to have professional drone/camera operation as an intended use case from the get go. It is not targeted to consumers or for gaming and the emphasis is on corporate virtual meeting & collaboration.
Rumor articles describe being able to see your surroundings with zero lag. Putting the camera/drone feed is just a simple overlay on top of that. Control the devices with some of the same hand controllers you already see on the market
Apple's approach to AR is likely to have professional drone/camera operation as an intended use case from the get go. It is not targeted to consumers or for gaming and the emphasis is on corporate virtual meeting & collaboration.
Rumor articles describe being able to see your surroundings with zero lag. Putting the camera/drone feed is just a simple overlay on top of that. Control the devices with some of the same hand controllers you already see on the market
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ahalpert
Major Contributor
Sounds impressive. Way too expensive for my needs since it's a low priority for me. It's crazy how far the VR/AR technology has come though.
I volunteered for a lot of experiments in college (one of my many odd jobs). I fondly remember the VR experiments. This was about 15 years ago. They put a huge helmet on me that was tethered by thick cables to machinery in the ceiling. There were 2 cable wranglers who ran around keeping the cables slack and out of my way as I navigated a virtual maze for them. (Late in the trial, I got bored and took a shortcut through some virtual walls and they had a minor freak-out and chastised me.)
But now you can get more functionality out of little wireless goggles.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I think the way to do the asscam is to rig the gopro to the back of your head or neck and point it down. That way you're actually looking at the distance between your ass, elbows, and feet and the masterpiece behind you. If I could do that and run the feed to the same phone I'm using for my camera monitor, either with a PIP or with a split-screen window with my main feed taking up most of the view, then I just might do it. For this specific type of shoot, it could be worth it. I could also strap a second phone to my arm to get the asscam feed, I'd just rather not.
Run&Gun
Veteran
The problem I see(pun intended) with all of this is, without some sort of indicator lines(like on vehicle back-up cameras), it’s not going to work that well. Ultra wide angle lenses totally throw off depth perception, especially when it’s not stereoscopic, and throw in the fact that you would be viewing it on a pretty small screen or even a sub-divided portion of that small screen. You may be much better off figuring out a way to use a sonar/radar/LiDAR type sensor (again, like vehicle back-up sensors) with the audible indication fed to your ear. Or a combination of both. Or just do it the simplest and easiest way: get someone you trust to spot you.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
I'm still pretty dubious about a dual monitor concept because unless you only shift your gaze to the "asscam" when both yourself and the subject are moving at a constant speed and direction, the framing will surely go out of whack. It took me literally years to learn how to "stay the course" when taking lightning fast looks at my surroundings on Steadicam (which to be fair is a more subtle touch than a gimbal), there is a tendency to subconsciously change the grip or hand position when attention is shifted.
That said--I almost wonder if the most logical placement for the camera would be on an elevated stalk creating a straight down from above perspective. Having had that on my dearly departed Chevy Bolt (extrapolated from multiple cameras around the car), it ended up being much eaiser to parse in terms of proximity vs a regular rearview camera. I could see someone doing this from a stalk extending above an Easyrig, although that would make it even that much harder to get through doorways of course!
That said--I almost wonder if the most logical placement for the camera would be on an elevated stalk creating a straight down from above perspective. Having had that on my dearly departed Chevy Bolt (extrapolated from multiple cameras around the car), it ended up being much eaiser to parse in terms of proximity vs a regular rearview camera. I could see someone doing this from a stalk extending above an Easyrig, although that would make it even that much harder to get through doorways of course!
Run&Gun
Veteran
Changing the perspective would help, greatly. If he had a simple, affordable, small wireless solution and he was just doing one “track” at a time, he could simply mount the camera on a tall light stand and put it around where he wants to stop and shoot straight down and then could see his clearance from the object as he approached. But again, this feels like we have passed Rube Goldberg territory a while ago.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
(abe powers on the asscam for the first time...)
it would have to be mounted to me for flexibility (including long takes with separate rear obstacle issues). and i'd like it to be close to the action, but I wouldn't want a lightstand to become another obstacle. You can monitor a gopro from a phone. I need to unbox the gopro max that I bought last year and find out exactly how that works.
I think mounted to the back of the head and pointed down. it would have to be far enough from the head to get an unobstructed view, and then the issue is you might be eating into your clearance with the gopro itself. but if I can have a painless monitoring experience, then I'm willing to give it a go finding a good mounting set-up.
it would have to be mounted to me for flexibility (including long takes with separate rear obstacle issues). and i'd like it to be close to the action, but I wouldn't want a lightstand to become another obstacle. You can monitor a gopro from a phone. I need to unbox the gopro max that I bought last year and find out exactly how that works.
I think mounted to the back of the head and pointed down. it would have to be far enough from the head to get an unobstructed view, and then the issue is you might be eating into your clearance with the gopro itself. but if I can have a painless monitoring experience, then I'm willing to give it a go finding a good mounting set-up.