Panasonic finally puts phase-detect AF on a mirrorless: the S5iiX

[Peter C.]

Just finished watching Gerald Undone review. Fantastic camera. Can you believe it they finally updated the AF to phase detect! The stabilization fantastic as always. The only thing that would hold me back from buying it is the L mount lenses. I also don't like 4k 60 crop. I'm both happy that Panasonic finally hit it out of the park but sad that it took this long for them to get it right. I think most have already committed to Sony or Canon. I also think that there will be hidden bugs that will be discovered so if you throw this right into production you might have some surprises waiting for you.

 

[Bassman2003]

Yes this scenario really shows the cartel approach imho. The big move from DSLR ownership to mirrorless was the cameras makers' best shot at getting people to switch systems and obviously Panasonic was not allowed to bring the heat until now.

 

[Thomas Smet]

I see this as a good competitive option for those already in the L mount system.

there is absolutely nothing here to sway Nikon, Canon or Sony users.

M43 users have to really decide if they want to lock into Panasonic again. Especially if they already own EF lenses they use with a SpeedBooster. Continuous AF for video will never work with adapted lenses. In that case this is no better than the first S5 was if one is going to adapt or use cinema glass. Same a few bucks and get the discounted original S5. The new S5 only makes sense if you wants to invest in L mount lenses. That’s a really tough sell for Panasonic.

older Canon users are going to switch to Sony for the 3rd party lens support or stick with Canon and adapt their many EF lenses they invested in for years. Nikon users same thing. There is almost absolutely zero reason to switch from Sony to this.

it’s always exciting when a new camera comes out but after taking a step back this is pretty much a me too camera for Panasonic. A way for them to stay alive. A way to keep what few FF customers they still have. I have always liked Panasonic but I largely consider their FF attempts a failure. They made some great bodies and lenses but it’s too little too late and that lens mount sucks. Not being able to handle adapted continuous AF killed the system and maybe Panasonic. In a perfect world where there is time to build up interest that may be different but there are just too many really good options out there now.

m43 came out during a time when DSLR really struggled to get a lot of things right. It was popular but it cut a lot of corners and had too many limitations. Panasonic offered an interesting fresh alternative. Something unique and different that had many advantages. Many could forgive not having FF because of all the other advantages Panasonic provided. That gap has largely closed now and Panasonic no longer has that advantage it once did. M43 is still a great format. It provides some benefits over FF sensors like faster readout and pushing video formats to a new generation faster than most FF sensors can handle. It also has a much longer reach making it greatly appeal to wildlife shooters. Panasonic eliminates almost every single advantage they once had with their FF options. They are now pretty much the same as everyone else. It’s a pick your poison situation now.

myself and likely many others are not going to ditch their current lenses just to see where Panasonic goes in the future. Again great bodies and great lenses and if one invested in the system it’s a killer system to have. Most of us have already invested in a system however and crossing into another system is not really a feasible option. Not without some holy crap features to sway users where they think they can’t live without. Like if Panasonic managed a global shutter or built in ND that might be enough for some to sell off what they have and make the switch. The kind of innovation that put Panasonic on the map. Not this game of catch up.

 

[ahalpert]

there is absolutely nothing here to sway Nikon, Canon or Sony users.

Nothing to sway them but maybe something to steady them. Ba dum ching

 

[hojomo]

Having watched the various review videos, I am really happy as someone who's used Nikon, Canon, and (for video) Panasonic for last few years.

I really don't like the feel of any Sony camera in my hands; but they have the best platform overall. Canon gets the ergonomics & feature set pretty damn close; but I sold off my Canon gear ages ago & no legacy glass. Platform also carries a pretty unreasonable price premium considering the build quality on everything but their top stuff.

I prefer Nikon, except for focus direction - now irrelevant on Z. If the Z8 gets the price/feature set right; they might still be an option. That still leaves Nikon with no real videocentric body; and I assume the Z8 is the D850 successor (best hr still camera of all time).

But with the Panasonic AF appearing to work pretty well for most of my use cases, I am way more likely to stick with Panasonic. I really like shooting video with their cameras. Hopefully we get the details on the S1 Mark II pretty soon. S5IIX looks pretty attractive minus rolling shutter as a B cam.

 

[DLD]

If S5MKII had 8K, oversampled 4K/6K, 40-45 MPX and a solid AF for $2,000-$2,500, then it may have swayed some EF/RF/F/Z shooters. R5 for half the price! As it is, it's an honorable mention product - looks nice but ...

 

[DLD]

Scanning the YouTubers. One group, "What great camera!". Others, "The auto focus still hunts". The former group obviously doesn't watch videos from the latter's.

 

[Peter C.]

Scanning the YouTubers. One group, "What great camera!". Others, "The auto focus still hunts". The former group obviously doesn't watch videos from the latter's.

I have a healthy skepticism that Panasonic's nailed phase detect AF on their first attempt. How you rate this camera largely depends on your view point. Should they be celebrated for finally addressing a complaint they have ignored for years? On the other hand this is a giant leap forward compared to their other cameras. So it's possible that reviewers are over stating the performance. If you want to continue receiving pre release copies you have to be careful how critical you are. Panasonic spared no expense to fly these reviewers out to Japan. Desperation or smart promotion?

More importantly I believe the results are mixed because AF and stabilization are effected by different types of filming. I think Sony and Canon has gradually improved it over many years and attempts.

 

[DLD]

Panasonic spared no expense to fly these reviewers out to Japan. Desperation or smart promotion?...

I am sure expenses were spared. The YouTubers weren't driven around in Rolls Royce's or served Wagyu sandwiches with their caviar pancakes. It probably cost Panasonic a couple of hundred grand or about a hundred cameras at retail (or 300 cameras manufacturing). Pocket change.

 

[Tom Roper]

I just preordered the S5II (not the X). In 4K60 (1.5 crop) mode it will mix in great with my P6K (1.55 crop), and U12K (1.3 crop) for weddings, and replace my ZV-1 on the gimbal, a huge upgrade. This upcoming wedding season I'm going 100% 60 fps. The S5II will give me a wider full frame option if needed by either dropping to 1080p or shooting 4K30 and using optical flow processing in Resolve. The Panasonic Synchro Scan has worked great for stopping the rolling band 60hz strobbing of LED lighting. I know I argued once with Peter C. about the merit of conventional 24 fps for weddings but I've since changed my mind after this year; just got better results mixing frame rates with a 60 fps project setting. Optical flow is still a problem when there are photographer flashes in the frame but I'd rather deal with that than the odd cadence and judder probs on 24 fps project timelines, and since I'll be doing my own edits. Gerald Undone had a great review of the S5II, and the DR keeps company with the best mirrorless. Gerald didn't go to Japan, they sent him a camera for review.

 

[stoneinapond]

I'm in, but a little later in the year

 

[Imamacuser]

Panasonic spared no expense to fly these reviewers out to Japan. Desperation or smart promotion?.

Pampering influencers might be a relatively new practice, but it's just an extension of the old practice of pampering dealers that generate a ton of sales.

I used to work as an AV installer for one of the major Sony dealers in my state, and the owners recounted to me some of the perks they got from Sony in I think 80s or 90s, "Sony treated us like royalty... They flew us out to Hawaii...," so this isn't a new practice, it has just shifted from dealers to influencers.

 

[ade4all]

Continuous AF for video will never work with adapted lenses. In that case this is no better than the first S5 was if one is going to adapt or use cinema glass. Same a few bucks and get the discounted original S5. The new S5 only makes sense if you wants to invest in L mount lenses. That’s a really tough sell for Panasonic.

They made some great bodies and lenses but it’s too little too late and that lens mount sucks. Not being able to handle adapted continuous AF killed the system and maybe Panasonic.. [/QUOTE

From the tests I've seen Canon ef lenses work pretty well with the Sigma adaptor on the S5mk2

For the price and best IBIS by far, great DR (compared to Canon), full size HDMI, no overheating and decent AF this camera is very compelling

Oops not very good at this quoting other people thing

 

[Thomas Smet]

I just preordered the S5II (not the X). In 4K60 (1.5 crop) mode it will mix in great with my P6K (1.55 crop), and U12K (1.3 crop) for weddings, and replace my ZV-1 on the gimbal, a huge upgrade. This upcoming wedding season I'm going 100% 60 fps. The S5II will give me a wider full frame option if needed by either dropping to 1080p or shooting 4K30 and using optical flow processing in Resolve. The Panasonic Synchro Scan has worked great for stopping the rolling band 60hz strobbing of LED lighting. I know I argued once with Peter C. about the merit of conventional 24 fps for weddings but I've since changed my mind after this year; just got better results mixing frame rates with a 60 fps project setting. Optical flow is still a problem when there are photographer flashes in the frame but I'd rather deal with that than the odd cadence and judder probs on 24 fps project timelines, and since I'll be doing my own edits. Gerald Undone had a great review of the S5II, and the DR keeps company with the best mirrorless. Gerald didn't go to Japan, they sent him a camera for review.

If the intention is to go all in 60p why not get a Sony A7S3 or a Canon R6 mk2 which can do FF full sensor 4k60? Both have very good AF as well. I'm not sure what lenses you have but you do know you will have to buy native L mount lenses to use for video AF? If you already have a P6k I'm going to assume you have EF lenses which will adapt but the video AF will not work at all. You could really get the original S5 and save some money if you don't need the AF. Image quality wise they are pretty much the same. The only thing the new S5 sensor added was the phase detect points.

Just seems interesting to buy a camera that will require new lenses when you have lenses that can adapt very well to Sony or Canon.

 

[Clermond]

Too late.
I ditched all Panasonic cameras S1, 2x S1R, EVA1 when Canon came out with the C300iii and R5 in 2020.
The S5II looks nice and I always loved the Panasonic colors but I won’t get back, especially as there is no
updated cinema camera with AF in the lineup

 

[ade4all]

Stop spreading this misinformation about ef lenses not working on the S5mk2 using AF for video...

Sorry this is in response to Thomas
Both quite annoying but go check out Toneh Northrup and Kai W reviews for examples of the Sigma MC-21 adaptor working well with ef lenses

 

[Peter C.]

To be fair you are right I saw the TC video I was surprised af works on an EF lens. The only caveat is you don't know how it works with other ef lenses, how it effects stabilization, the added expense, hassle, and failure point of using an adapter. I'm not keen on buying a new camera that will require an adapter for me to use it.

One of the things to keep in mind these first round of reviews often gloss over or miss real world issues. Don't lose sight that the most important thing in paid work is reliability and ease of use not a tech spec.

 

[Thomas Smet]

Continuous AF for video will never work with adapted lenses. In that case this is no better than the first S5 was if one is going to adapt or use cinema glass. Same a few bucks and get the discounted original S5. The new S5 only makes sense if you wants to invest in L mount lenses. That’s a really tough sell for Panasonic.

They made some great bodies and lenses but it’s too little too late and that lens mount sucks. Not being able to handle adapted continuous AF killed the system and maybe Panasonic.. [/QUOTE

From the tests I've seen Canon ef lenses work pretty well with the Sigma adaptor on the S5mk2

For the price and best IBIS by far, great DR (compared to Canon), full size HDMI, no overheating and decent AF this camera is very compelling

Oops not very good at this quoting other people thing

For video? It is known the Sigma adapter does not support continuous AF. Did that change? The adapter supports AF-S mode which is the single tap to focus mode. Not continuous AF where the camera keeps adjusting focus. The adapter works fine for photography but not for video. Unless one only uses a single tap to focus. But the DFD focus on the older S5 was perfectly fine for that. Its the hunting back and forth with continuous AF that people had an issue with on Panasonic.

 

[ade4all]

Yes for video go check out those reviews I mentioned. Sorry but you should really do some research before writing these big essays on a presumption

 

[Peter C.]

For video? It is known the Sigma adapter does not support continuous AF. Did that change? The adapter supports AF-S mode which is the single tap to focus mode. Not continuous AF where the camera keeps adjusting focus. The adapter works fine for photography but not for video. Unless one only uses a single tap to focus. But the DFD focus on the older S5 was perfectly fine for that. Its the hunting back and forth with continuous AF that people had an issue with on Panasonic.

2:54