Bigger factory LCD screens?

F

firehawk

Veteran
We talked about this in the past but how would you guys like to have a bigger better LCD built-in with video cameras?
I would gladly pay several hundred more for a camera to have a ~5" high res screen with better accuracy.
I am so tired of battling the poor screens on all my cameras. As my eyes get worse it's a bigger problem.
Adding external monitors add weight and additional cables, potential problems/hassle which isn't a big deal for setup corporate/commercial but it is a significant issue for run&gun, event work.
Even a removable/replacable screen would be fine where you unplug the small one and replace it with a bigger one to allow for small and large.

What do you guys think?
 
firehawk...funny story.

The original big Blackmagic URSA shipped with a 10" screen and in my opinion it was one of the most beautiful things to look at, especially back in 2014 when Atomos was mostly a prototype.

99% of people hated it and laughed at it - and at times the camera was definitely unwieldy - but it was so nice to use when you needed to. You never missed focus!

Anyway, they took that idea - kind of - and put 5" screens into the rest of their cameras. It's convenient (the newer, brighter ones are great).
 
The 3.5" that comes on most cameras is plenty good enough because I'd never shoot with any camera that didn't have a proper EVF. If you had a real viewfinder you wouldn't need to put a heavier, power-hhungry, awkward monitor on the camera. Ever use a good EVF? Frankly, I don't see how anyone can shoot outdoors without one unless they rely totally on AF and AE.
 
Thanks guys. The 3.5" on all my cameras might be okay if they were higher res and better quality but they all stink. I do like EVF but for a large part of my unscripted live event work I can't use the EVF because I'm holding the camera up high or it's a really long event and bending down into the EVF would be hard on my back and also limit my vision where I need to also be able to watch outside the framed action to anticipate what could happen and be ready.
 
If manufacturers are not going to provide decent (let alone great) monitoring options they could at least support third party companies trying to fill that gap. How about the following?:

- Optional output through SDI / HDMI of focus mag, peaking, zebra, display etc. so I can still use the buttons on the camera. The C70 already does this - about the only thing I really liked about it. I can't easily operate a touch screen at the same time as shooting handheld.

- Support for touch tracking on external monitors, or make it possible for 3rd party companies to provide this. Monitor+ have done it for phones (no square on the display indicating what's being tracked though), I assume without Sony's blessing or assistance.

- Well designed info display that scales up nicely for larger monitors. I don't need the symbol telling me what focus mode I'm in to be a. on top of the image b. half-an-inch high on a 5-inch monitor.

- Well designed info display that works well for an EVF. Surely there is no reason to have ANY info on top of a 16:9 image in an EVF. You'd think Sony would have this covered given how great the EVFs are on their Alpha series cameras, but no.
 
Doug Jensen said:
The 3.5" that comes on most cameras is plenty good enough because I'd never shoot with any camera that didn't have a proper EVF. If you had a real viewfinder you wouldn't need to put a heavier, power-hhungry, awkward monitor on the camera. Ever use a good EVF? Frankly, I don't see how anyone can shoot outdoors without one unless they rely totally on AF and AE.
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Ding, ding, ding, ding…. We have a winner. If you’re outside a real EVF is the answer 8 or 9/10 times. Even when I’m inside and I need to really follow someone moving a lot, I prefer my eye in a real EVF. It’s easier to see and makes me feel like the camera is part of me. The only time I really need a “flip out” is for a low “gladiator” shot or I’m holding the camera over my head. Fortunately those shots aren’t the majority of what I do and my Amira and VariCam’s provide those options. That was one of the things that bugged my about my F55, though, because I had(have) the OLED VF which doesn’t have the flip-away diopter or flip-out LCD, and the LCD EVF that does, the diopter optics are of poor quality and everything looks soft/out of focus to me, so I can’t really use it. I think Arri and Sony both nailed it with the high quality OLED EVF with flip out attached to either the side or top of the EVF body(wish the Sony version worked on the F55).
 
Run&Gun said:
Ding, ding, ding, ding…. We have a winner. If you’re outside a real EVF is the answer 8 or 9/10 times.
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+1 to that. I still prefer to work with a good hires VF any day. Grew up with VFs on film cameras first then followed by video cameras. As DJ points out, I cannot understand how some people live 100% without a VF. I must be getting old.

Chris Young
 
cyvideo said:
I must be getting old.
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You are...we are...most cameras are flying around on gimbals these days. Besides on those productions which use cameras on their shoulders which then it's pretty much mandatory to use an EVF.
 
The original post was about the "consumer tier" cameras, presumably with the high quality auto focus. (sorry, ARRI). My reply is that the OEM's generally trend to smaller bodies in this sector and they consider screens as part of these bodies and so it is what it is.

PS: Hypothetically speaking, foldable/bendable/rollable screens could be made much larger than the bodies to which they are attached but, at the moment, them are pricey buggers. Maybe, once the manufacturing costs come down, someone will release one for the stand alone cameras.
 
DLD said:
PS: Hypothetically speaking, foldable/bendable/rollable screens could be made much larger than the bodies to which they are attached but, at the moment, them are pricey buggers. Maybe, once the manufacturing costs come down, someone will release one for the stand alone cameras.
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It's a conspiracy that you don't have it now.
 
DLD said:
The original post was about the "consumer tier" cameras, presumably with the high quality auto focus. (sorry, ARRI). My reply is that the OEM's generally trend to smaller bodies in this sector and they consider screens as part of these bodies and so it is what it is.

PS: Hypothetically speaking, foldable/bendable/rollable screens could be made much larger than the bodies to which they are attached but, at the moment, them are pricey buggers. Maybe, once the manufacturing costs come down, someone will release one for the stand alone cameras.
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Correct. I'm talking mostly about the market of those using camcorder type (cheap) cameras ( FS700, CX350, DVX200, FS5 etc) who may be doing a wild assortment of work where having a more involved controlled setup may not always be possible. In those cases I feel a better LCD would be greatly helpful.
 
firehawk said:
Correct. I'm talking mostly about the market of those using camcorder type (cheap) cameras ( FS700, CX350, DVX200, FS5 etc) who may be doing a wild assortment of work where having a more involved controlled setup may not always be possible. In those cases I feel a better LCD would be greatly helpful.
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Why are those cameras any different than other cameras? A good viewfinder is a necessary component of ANY video camera. The viewfinder on my Z280 camcorder is perfectly good enough to use for all my run & gun shooting. And when I need a monitor instead of having my eyeball pressed against the camera, the flip-out 3.5" LCD is right there too. Same thing for the Canon XF705 that I used last month, the viewfinder on that camera is perfectly good enough. So, I still don't understand the desire to drag around a camera with a bigger monitor. Use the viewfinder.

For sit-down interviews, product shots, headshots, etc. having a tiny 5" monitor on top of the camera is not good enough. A mandatory component of anyone's kit should be a 15"-20" field monitor that can be setup on a stand. For network shoots and high-end corporate, arriving without a good field monitor would as unforgivable as arriving without a tripod. And even when I'm working on my own projects in controlled circumstances, not having a 15"-20" field monitor is unthinkable.
 
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https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256...martRedirect=y

A 13.3" 2048x1536 display is $1,279-$1,469 (depending on a quantity bought). Let's say, a similar 6.7" is one third the price (the surface is 1/4 but you still need a controller), making it roughly $450. But that's wholesale and before other costs. So, it'd probably be about $2,000 retail. I figure it might appear as a Kickstarter/GoFundMe type of a product within a year or two. Hopefully, prices will come down by then.

The problem is that, if it isn't licensed by an OEM, it'd just be a monitor. Costs would have come down by 75% or so to be appearing as screens on the higher end cameras. It's very much at the nascent stage now. Prototypes are shown at exhibitions but the production is slow to move along. Some laptops may be seen later in the year. Prices aren't currently announced.
 
VR headset monitoring. One eye sees through the camera on the front of the headset, this turns off when you stop walking so you can monitor with both eyes. You'll look like a complete tool but no one will know it's you as you're wearing a VR headset.
 
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the first thing would be to go to a 4:3 aspect and put the rubbish avove/below the image.

the red dot of a rolling sony right where the boom op drops his thing into shot is a classic bit of dumfkuery

I cant belevie a manufacturere would not want us to see the whole image we are recording.

NEXT would be to move towards a 4:3 upright finder and have a zoom in view on the slected focus area (etc)

Cruppy finders (evf and screen) are part of the reason I think af is so important.. we just cant see properly to focus.. yes you can get away with a cruppy screen if you have a remote puller on a 27in in a balck tent.

ive come off a feature and the arri puts the gubbins off the edge of the image.. but I guess the pullers were only working on 720 worth of image on their 1080 tvlocgic or small hds

how much will be sharp on the big screen? id love to see the rushes.

a next critique is that focus bash (zoom in) seems to be an upscale of the 1080 monitor/evf feed - even when one is working in 4k.. look at some muzz closer.. what dross

im mainly refering to the fs7 which i own.

my canon c200 screen is so shiney I have a perfect view. Of myself.
 
ability to use the evf on mirrorless dslrs like my r6 is pretty game changing.

The lack of evf on the fx6 is a major reason I own an evf'd c200- which means sony dont get to sell me $40k of lenses in the next decade.

removal of the evf from the fx3 or whatever its called humours me to the max - speend $1000 less on the stills version and get an evf.. genius.

the c70 again has stayed on the the shelf for me as the older evf'd c200 is miles better

Id invite any maker to go a corporate in portugal with me and say evfs are for old people. they are for people who work for a living
 
morgan_moore said:
The lack of evf on the fx6 is a major reason I own an evf'd c200-
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The decision not to put an EVF on the FX6 was a really dumb move by Sony and I was pretty disappointed . . . at first. Now that I've been shooting with a Zacuto Gratical OLED EVF for the past year I'd never give it up. And I can easily move it over to any camera I own now or in the future so it will be paying for itself long after the FX6 is history. The Gratical is far superior to whatever viewfinder or "tube extension" that Sony would have put on the FX6. The picture quality is excellent and the zebras and peaking are far more customizable with tons of menu options -- plus they look more refined too. But the real kicker is that if Sony had put an FX9/FS7-style extenison tube on the FX6 there'd be no way to use touch-tracking auto-focus, which is one of the FX6's best features after V2.0. So, now I have the best of both worlds: The Zacuto for monitoring plus the built-in LCD for touch-tracking. You have to have both. Yeah, the Zacuto added to the overal cost of the camera, but if Sony had put a decent EVF or extension tube on the camera they would have charged more for it. The FX6 with the Gratical is a killer combo that no other camera can match for the price.
 
Doug: for someone who's never used the Gratical EVF (but I've used pretty good EVFs on other cameras), can you elaborate on the quality difference compared to the stock FX6/FX9 screen as used with the loupe? I don't doubt the difference but I was under the impression that the resolutions were similar (both 1280 vertical) so I'm curious to know how the Zacuto sets itself apart (aside from the better customization). I've been eyeing (pun intended) used Gratical EVFs on eBay for some time now but have yet to pull the trigger, mostly because I've been getting by just fine with the FX6 LCD screen, the FX9 loupe, and a 5" monitor if needed.
 
Another thought, it's possible that a cartel member, as they have done over the last decade or so, would license a third party like Atomos to provide an external monitor/recorder, but with a foldable screen and the OEM quality AF among other features. I.E, it'll be like a foldable Ninja 5 or anything resembling current foldable smartphones. Which arestill very pricey but some are already offered for under a grand.
 
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