Apple 13 Series SUFFER NEW lens flaring / ghosting


Pony up for a ton of storage just to make use of ProRes.

What I also find interesting about the ProRes is they call it ProRes Video. Not ProRes, ProRes LT, or ProRes HQ like we have had for decades. This is likely a new special compressed version of ProRes. Just seems odd to suddenly give it a different name. I would love to see some specs on what that ProRes Video actually is.
 
Thomas Smet said:
At one point the iPhone did not provide 24p so don't just assume its there for cinematic mode. To this day we only get 24p when shooting 4k and don't have it as an option for 1080p unless you use Filmic Pro. Plus there are other special modes on the iPhone that are limited to 30p for whatever reason. There is an app that can export tracking data from the iPhone to use in a animation scene but right now it only supports 30p and not 24p. I think for the same reason because it only uses 1080p mode and there is no 24p option without using Filmic Pro.

Since cinematic mode is limited to 1080 it could very well only support 30p and not 24p. That is unless Apple finally added 24p to its 1080p mode. If you go into the camera settings in the settings app you will see only 4k has a 24p option. This is on my iPhone 11 Pro Max and the latest iOS. Maybe that will change with the iPhone 13 and iOS 15 to make cinematic mode support 24p. Maybe thats why some videos are 30p with an older beta version and some may be 24p.

I have never been all that impressed with the 1080p video quality on the iPhone. 4k tends to hide some of the over processing and artifacts the iPhone has but with 1080 a lot of that ugliness can show up.
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Regardless, his comment doesn’t make sense, unless I’m missing something. The comment seems to infer that they had to limit their movements, because the frame rate was 30p. Do we tell people not to move much when we shoot 24fps(23.98)? No. So why would their movements need to be limited with 30fps, instead?
 
Run&Gun said:
Regardless, his comment doesn’t make sense, unless I’m missing something. The comment seems to infer that they had to limit their movements, because the frame rate was 30p. Do we tell people not to move much when we shoot 24fps(23.98)? No. So why would their movements need to be limited with 30fps, instead?
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The reality is that companies don't need to give favors. They're in it for profits. My original gripe is that Apple, marketing itself as the king of videography, should at least have partnered with a proper lens manufacturer. I know those things aren't easy because there's exclusivity and known prestige. Canon has always had their proprietary ''HD Lenses,' Sony has Carl Zeiss, JVC (consumer line) had Schneider, Panasonic (Leica), etc.. Sony and Zeiss at the moment have the best solutions with ghosting and anti reflections. they've marketed it as such. I've come to the point to even ask, is Apple's new sensor reflection problem an actual style?! It seems like one would have no choice, but in my opinion, they should just invest in better VIDEO LENSES if they market leading filmmakers do commercials for them with ''indie filmmaking.''

Also, as Smet has said, but I'll say it, don't approach it naively. For years fans criticized Canon about their 8-bit 4:2:0 specs for even prosumer gear. They do that, optimize the consumer's upgrade options by design. to Apple's point of view, the cinematic mode could be an inclusive or subjective MOTION that they FEEL is enough or good for the consumer considering they have to apply their new 120hz panels. Meaning, with things in motion at 120hz, it's quite possible that some consumers won't even benefit or appreciate 24p. I mean trust, it's good to be optimistic, but other competitors over the years have shown that favors are not needed to the consumer
 
Run&Gun said:
Regardless, his comment doesn’t make sense, unless I’m missing something. The comment seems to infer that they had to limit their movements, because the frame rate was 30p. Do we tell people not to move much when we shoot 24fps(23.98)? No. So why would their movements need to be limited with 30fps, instead?
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I think its because most of us pros know how 30p looks vs 24p and a ton of people would have pointed that out as not looking right or something. If not much moves then its harder to tell the motion cadence.
 
I know someone that just got their iPhone 13 Pro Max. 1TB model. The cinematic mode and 1080p in general is still limited to 30p. 1080p mode does seem to support 25 and 60p so its possible the cinematic mode may support 25p and any 24p samples out there have been converted to look like 24p.

1 hour of 1080p 30p ProRes video for them is about 60 GBs. so the 1TB seems to have plenty of space for that kind of content.
1 hour of 4k 30p is about 240 GBs for them. So a 1TB empty iPhone might be bale to shoot for four hours which actually isn't all that bad. No cinematic mode however which is a bummer.

Anyone wanting a DSLR pseudo look is going to now be forced to use 1080p for some time unless they upgrade to a iPhone 14 next year. Assuming the iPhone 14 can handle 4k with it. Its a decision between better quality or selective focus.

$1,600 seems like a lot to me to get a camera and 1TB of storage that still cannot even come close to competing with other cameras. Plus on a shoot you can no longer take phone calls, text, web browse or take notes because your phone is busy acting like a camera. I just don't get it outside of casual use because its there in a pocket.
 
Thomas Smet said:
I think its because most of us pros know how 30p looks vs 24p and a ton of people would have pointed that out as not looking right or something. If not much moves then its harder to tell the motion cadence.
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It’s a very complicated topic in my opinion. Apple has to take into consideration the consumer first and the competition. As far as “cinematic mode” it’s good to just point out what you’re paying for or what to expect from Apple next generation or two after. Meaning, perhaps the motion interpolation could’ve been a big debate over at Apple, and who knows how they prioritized on it. Remember years back various 120hz 4Ks we’re getting criticizism for juddery pan shots? The 24p judderism that companies started marketing “true 24p” for tv lines. I don’t know if there’s a small or big margin from an onboard chip that processes the motion interpolation, but it could be that Apple ditched and feel 30p would go smoother with their 120hz panels. We won’t know unless their architecture was disclosed. It could be disastrous if Apple encountered had such judder with propaganda hit pieces from competitors that Sony and Samsung were better…

I don’t know what to make of it. But we should keep in mind this criticism is mainly for watching the playback on the iPhone not different post published platforms.
 
Thomas Smet said:
60 GB puts the ProRes right at normal ProRes level for 1080p 30p. Not LT or HQ. So we don't even get HQ as an option.
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I don’t care much for cinematic mode. I wish Filmic Pro applied three point callback markers (rack focusing) like Beast Cam. Also, I noticed that iOS 15 is heftier and freezes a bit on filmic remote on pre A11 chips. For example iPhone SE 2016 as just a rack focusing controller to an iPhone 6S Plus isn’t working like before with the iOS 15 update. I think remote rack focusing is still jittery anyways.
 
For "us", it's kind of weird to not have 24p as a shooting option in "Cinematic Mode", but will the average consumer notice, and to be honest, whenever I do shoot video with my iphone(s), I'm always shooting at 60p real time or 240 slow-mo.

A little disappointing with regards to the reported flaring. My 11 Pro is a champ when it comes to being able to shoot into lights and the like. My 13 Pro should be here Friday(phone case just arrived today). Probably won't get to really play with it 'till Sunday, but I guess I'll find out how it really handles soon enough.
 
Run&Gun said:
For "us", it's kind of weird to not have 24p as a shooting option in "Cinematic Mode", but will the average consumer notice, and to be honest, whenever I do shoot video with my iphone(s), I'm always shooting at 60p real time or 240 slow-mo.

A little disappointing with regards to the reported flaring. My 11 Pro is a champ when it comes to being able to shoot into lights and the like. My 13 Pro should be here Friday(phone case just arrived today). Probably won't get to really play with it 'till Sunday, but I guess I'll find out how it really handles soon enough.
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I'm sure the 13 Pro will be just fine. For consumers it's perfect or people who don't care about niche lens fiascoes. I'd advise Wedding Videographers to take advantage of the highest rates possible for clients and marketing.

 
I want a real camera with 14 stops DR that has car play, makes calls, sends text, streams news, finance, casts, Air Play, has apple store, runs all apps, monitors my health. Actually, you could just stop after the first 2 features.
 
If you watch any of the demo videos you will also notice a complete lack of bokeh. Gaussian blur is not the same as how optics work with focus. Points of light will not turn into giant glowing balls. They will just become blurred dots.

Here is an example of a depth map.

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The Blur essentially gets masked on the gray scale depth map. So on one end only the white flower would be in focus and everything else gradually gets blurry the darker the depth map region. The almost black flowers in the back would be very blurry. So its a nice way to add blur after the fact but if you use Gaussian blur its artificial and nothing like how optics work. I cannot for the life of me figure out why a pro would want that. The other issue is look at the hard edges of the depth map. Helps separate the subject but it doesn't take into consideration how the environment wraps around the subject. The edges are not going to be natural either. After Effects has a special blur called Defocus that attempts to simulate how a lens blurs part of the scene. I doubt Apple is using anything like this.


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Too much paralysis by analysis. Let the technology play out.

"Pros" have very little say here. Hundreds of millions of normal people and normal people paying people that charge money to use a camera will decide if this footage will be acceptable or rejectable.

We've lived through video that looked like it was shot on a cucumber, so there's been worse that was palatable.
 
NorBro said:
Too much paralysis by analysis. Let the technology play out.

"Pros" have very little say here. Hundreds of millions of normal people and normal people paying people that charge money to use a camera will decide if this footage will be acceptable or rejectable.

We've lived through video that looked like it was shot on a cucumber, so there's been worse that was palatable.
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See I think its better for others to understand what the difference is vs pretending it so wonderful and perfect and being oblivious to whats really going on. Maybe I'm wrong and this time Apple will change the market. I just know I have been hearing that since the first iPhone camera came out. Still waiting to see how they have replaced all of us or more professional cameras. Every single person I have ever known that started out with an iPhone eventually moved to something better. Not because they couldn't pull off nice video with it but because it was annoying to use their phone for something other than what a phone is used for. Calls, texting, web browsing, playing games when bored on set, taking notes, behind the scenes photo/video, looking at storyboards using apps like light meters/slates and so forth.

Cool starter camera to experiment with but can we just leave it as that for now?
 
Just started shipping. Barely anyone has it and Apple hasn't even rolled out any software updates for it (which they likely will).

I mean, it's cool to analyze the marketing and make theoretical conclusions which could turn out being 110% accurate, but maybe at least wait until you see some more footage.

As far as the additional purposes of a phone...it's a young man's and woman's world and they surely will welcome more multitasking from one device.
 
NorBro said:
Just started shipping. Barely anyone has it and Apple hasn't even rolled out any software updates for it (which they likely will).

I mean, it's cool to analyze the marketing and make theoretical conclusions which could turn out being 110% accurate, but maybe at least wait until you see some more footage.

As far as the additional purposes of a phone...it's a young man's and woman's world and they surely will welcome more multitasking from one device.
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The problem with using one device for multiple things, is when you need to do multiple things that you're using that single device for, at the same time. I mean, it's cool that we can do so many things from our phones today, but it has its drawbacks, too. And Lord help us if there's a bad app update.
 
Run&Gun said:
The problem with using one device for multiple things, is when you need to do multiple things that you're using that single device for, at the same time. I mean, it's cool that we can do so many things from our phones today, but it has its drawbacks, too. And Lord help us if there's a bad app update.
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I probably shouldn't admit this, but I regularly bat away calls and texts from my wife that pop up on my phone when I'm gimbaling and using the phone for wifi control. Of course, you can tun off all notifications, but I like for my wife to be able to reach me in an emergency.

Of course, I could just have a dedicated smartphone or ipod touch, etc, for this purpose. And I'm planning on getting a 2nd unit on black friday for remote controlling a gimbal and/or monitoring/controlling a 2nd camera at the same time.
 
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