Feature Film with DVX...is it too late?

A

airforceguy

Active member
I am probably one of the last to buy a DVX 100B (a year ago). I will be the first to admit (except to my wife), I haven't spent nearly enough time getting to know it as I should have, but it is paid for and as much as I would like to upgrade to HD, it will break my budget and I still have lots of room to grow learning about my DVX not to mention trying to learn a new HD camera.

1) So, with that said, am I out of my mind to even consider shooting a feature on my DVX this late in the game?...without an adapter and in squeeze mode no doubt.

2) I have also been approached to shoot a demo for a fishing show. Is squeeze mode appropriate for television or should I consider shooting it in 4:3?

Thanks!
 
I thought you were joking at first. You absolutely can shoot a film with a DVX100. And you can shoot without an adapter and you could shoot in Squeeze mode as well. (not sure about that for a fishing show though)

The DVX is still a great cam and can produce some amazing images.

BUT. If you are going to do a feature or anything for TV I would learn that camera inside and out or hire someone who does.
 
airforceguy said:
I am probably one of the last to buy a DVX 100B (a year ago). I will be the first to admit (except to my wife), I haven't spent nearly enough time getting to know it as I should have, but it is paid for and as much as I would like to upgrade to HD, it will break my budget and I still have lots of room to grow learning about my DVX not to mention trying to learn a new HD camera.

1) So, with that said, am I out of my mind to even consider shooting a feature on my DVX this late in the game?...without an adapter and in squeeze mode no doubt.
Click to expand...

Not at all. Go for it. There are still folks buying new and used DVX cameras. HD is not the rule, and won't be fore some time to come if it ever gets to that point at all. The DVX produces a great image, and can uprez to HD (720) gracefully. There are still many indie films that are being shot on the DVX. And many of those are in squeeze mode.

In fact, there are projects out there shot with a DVX in squeeze that really blow the argument for pixels out of the water.

airforceguy said:
2) I have also been approached to shoot a demo for a fishing show. Is squeeze mode appropriate for television or should I consider shooting it in 4:3?
Click to expand...

The question of 16:9 vs. 4:3 for a program like that is really up to the producers. I think 16:9 would be perfectly fine for that, but if the folks in charge of that project are adamant that it be 4:3, then you shoot 4:3. Just remember that 16:9 can be easily conformed to 4:3 letterbox.

Get Barry's DVX book if you don't already have it. It will help you figure out all the bells and whistles of the DVX.
 
I'm concerned about how something shot in squeeze mode would look when viewed on a 4:3 television.

One more thing. I was reading a post earlier about which LCD setting to view when shooting in squeeze mode. Someone said they prefer viewing it 4:3 instead of 16:9 because it shows more of what you are shooting, i.e. to prevent getting mics and booms in the shot. Your take?
 
airforceguy said:
I'm concerned about how something shot in squeeze mode would look when viewed on a 4:3 television.

One more thing. I was reading a post earlier about which LCD setting to view when shooting in squeeze mode. Someone said they prefer viewing it 4:3 instead of 16:9 because it shows more of what you are shooting, i.e. to prevent getting mics and booms in the shot. Your take?
Click to expand...

Keep your v/f in full-frame 4:3. Yeah, everything will look horizontally squashed, but that's okay. Better to see more of the frame.

As for watching on a 4:3 television... you have to check with the broadcasting network to get their specs and policies on 16:9. If they can't handle anamorphic, you can always edit the program in 16:9 so you have it for future reference and expansion, then convert the finished project to 4:3 letterbox for the network.
 
The DVX100B is most certainly still a viable tool for feature filmmaking. With careful attentention to lighting, framing and such, there is no reason whatsoever that a DVX100B should be considered an inferior camera.

Like C2V said, HD is not the rule and probably won't be for a long time, if ever. HD is a bandwidth hog and takes six times the bandwidth of SD. A broadcaster can send out six SD programs on the same bandwidth that it takes to send one HD program. Cable companies (at least in my area) are still broadcasting on SD for their basic cable and I don't see them upgrading to digital for basic cable for quite some time. Not as long as they can continue to label digital as a "premium" service and charge more for it, anyway.

As far as the 4:3 vs 16:9 question, why not shoot in letterboxed 4:3? Many, if not most, of the shows I watch on The Outdoor Channel are in letterboxed 4:3. That way, their shows are easily watched by both standard TV owners AND widescreen owners.
 
Another idea is to shoot in 4:3 and mask your viewfinder. That way you can add the 16:9 in post and have some play for framing. If you're using AE check out the presets over at creative cow for this.
 
Thanks guys for your inputs. I guess I started to let the HD hype get to me. I agree, and have seen some amazing projects shot with the DVX.

I will research the television format a little more, but as of now I am leaning a little towards the 4:3 or letterbox idea. It seems to me this would give me the best qualty. I do not catch the outdoor channel here but Versus seems to show everything (at least in my area), in 4:3. I need to make up my mind pretty fast because I will be shooting at Lake Powell and at a Lake in Oregon later this month. With that said, which format will give me the most options?

Does anyone have a link on how to uprez to HD as C2V mention earlier?
 
Dissenting opinion: yes it's too late.

How many shorts have you done so far? You quickly realize even a short is a TON of work. A feature is a million tons. Like building another Great Pyramid out of giant sandstone blocks. And I'm assuming you're talking about narrative fiction features here (like drama). Documentary may be another matter entirely.

So after going through all that work, why shoot in a format that almost surely limit your chances of making your investment back. A great story is obviously the primary concern, but these days, there are so many cameras that give you a better picture than a DVX for so little money, I wouldn't do all that work without getting the best picture possible.
 
Another stupid question...sorry! If I shoot in letterbox, can I remove the bars in post if I had to later? Or, is it better to shoot in 4:3 leaving space on the top and bottom and add bars later if I had to? Which is easier?

If I shot in squeeze mode is it possible to convert it to letterbox and/or 4:3 in post later?
 
If you want to have a choice whether or not to add letterboxing masks, DEFIINTELY shoot in 4:3 and then you can add the bars (crop) in post.

This will give you the most options, including the chance to adjust your framing, vertically, in the edit suite.

All you have to do is use translucent/transparent tape or something (that doesn't leave residue) on your LCD so that you can frame for letterbox, while still seeing what the full frame of the image might be.

I doubt you'll ever want 4:3, once you've masked the letterbox version.
 
Shooting in 4:3 does offer more options, it's just more work that has to be done during the editing process.

As for your feature, some of the distributors (like Maverick Entertainment) want submissions to be in 4:3 letterbox. So, you might want to consider shooting your feature in 4:3 letterbox or in 4:3 and letterboxing in post.
 
Wow! Didn't know that about Maverick Ent. I kind of like the idea of the tape on the LCD and shooting 4:3 (I think someone may have mentioned it earlier. I will shoot some test footage of all 3 ratios tomorrow and compare the three. I also want to see if I have to compensate for tv safe area when shooting in letterbox and squeeze.

I just finished watching 2 fishing shows on Versus, 1 was shot in letterbox, the other 4:3.

Paladin mentioned that shooting in 4:3 requires more steps in post...explain.
 
When you shoot in full frame 4:3, once the footage is in your NLE, to convert to letterbox, each individual clip must be manually cropped to 16:9. While this is not really difficult to do and does allow you to adjust your framing, it can be tedious when working with long projects. It all depends on how much control you want in post. Shooting 4:3 requires more work in post but, while letterbox is easier and quicker to edit, your framing is pretty much locked in at the time of shooting. Using one or the other is purely a personal choice.

Of course, if you shoot in 4:3 with the intention of exporting in 4:3, then no extra work is required.

I bought a DVX100B last March (2008) and I, too, intend to shoot a feature with it. No, it most definitely NOT too late to use a DVX for serious work. You have the camera, so get out there and shoot!

You might also want to check this out:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=142362

I wish you luck.
 
Last edited:
for my work, I send out all my stuff to cable channels in 16:9, and if they want it in 4:3, I just put pillars vertically on the sides.
 
Just some points to consider, when deciding shooting full-frame 4:3 vs. letterbox (because they're both actually 4:3):

If you shoot letterbox, the black bars are actually part of the picture, so anything you do -- color correction, picture-in-picture, animated transitions -- will affect the letterbox bars, too. So, if you're color-correcting or color balancing, the bars will usually change shade or color, and if you do some kind of animation with the frame, like a page curl, the bars will curl with the picture. So, chances are, if you do anything like that, you're going to end up crop the bars anyway. And, if you want to deliver as 16:9, you'll have to crop as well.

Also, pretty much all of the prosumer-level NLEs have functions which make it easy to crop all or most of your clips at once.

But, if you're not planning to add any FX and just do straight cuts and deliver as 4:3, it doesn't matter either way. There's also an argument to be made that because the black bars don't take up much data, more quality can be put into the actual image, so you might end up with a slightly higher image quality between the bars.

So, of course, it all goes into the calculus. :)
 
Dave,

I hadn't even considered the color correction angle. Good thing you brought it up. With that in mind, it might be better to shoot 4:3 and figure out the aspect ratio in post. It would give more options.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top