16x9 aspect radio vs. 4:3 squeeze

NorBro

NorBro

Major Contributor
Can someone please tell me what the difference is between shooting in the 16x9 (anamorphic) aspect ratio and shooting in a 4x3 aspect ratio in the squeeze mode? Also, if you're in the 16x9 aspect ratio, what happens if you try to shoot in the squeeze mode then?

Thank you very much!
 
This really has been discussed to great length. A search of the forums, or a quick read through the camera's manual or Barry's DVX book, will guide you straight.

But long story short:

16:9 squeeze mode is anamorphic. I don't know what's got you differentiating anamorphic 16:9 and squeeze. It's called anamorphic (from the Greek "ana," or back/again, and "morphosis," or a shaping) because it compresses the horizontal axis to fit all the information into a 4:3 image. That "squeezed" image, when displayed on a 16:9 monitor, will stretch the image back out where it will look normal.

Now, if you're talking about using an anamorphic adapter (lens-mount), it does pretty much the same thing as squeeze mode... though, with squeeze mode you do (technically) lose a little bit of vertical resolution. The lens attachment squeezes the image before it hits the lens, and squeeze mode does it in-camera by cropping the image (without letterbox). So to add the lens attachment and flip to squeeze mode at the same time would be redundant, and would create a very unusual image.
 
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Squeeze vs. Anamorphic

Squeeze vs. Anamorphic

Thank you for your response. So shooting in 4:3 squeezed mode will play the footage back normal on a 16:9 display. How will the 16:9 aspect ratio (with the letterbox) playback on a 16:9 display?

I'm just having trouble understanding the difference...to me it seems that they essentially do the same thing and that the only difference is a change in resolution and/or what you can fit on the screen during shooting.
 
Best way is to try it out. Shoot some footage different ways and see what happens. Best way to learn.
 
Yeah, just shoot a bunch with all three methods (in camera anamorphic, in camera letterbox and letterbox in post) and see what you come up with.
 
Take the others' advice. Shoot and see. It'll clear everything up.

But to answer your question, as you head out to experiment... letterbox mode uses the same 16:9 image, but crops it down to a 4:3 letterboxed image. That means that, on a 16:9 monitor, it will stretch out, letterbox bars and all, and look kind of weird.
 
Thanks

Thanks

Thank you!

I'll try and shoot some more stuff...the other day I had my camera plugged into my HDTV and while I was shooting, I didn't really see any difference in the 16x9 aspect ratio footage and the 4:3 squeezed footage...maybe that's not a valid way to test things.

Oh, well,

Thanks guys.
 
NorBro said:
Thank you!

I'll try and shoot some more stuff...the other day I had my camera plugged into my HDTV and while I was shooting, I didn't really see any difference in the 16x9 aspect ratio footage and the 4:3 squeezed footage...maybe that's not a valid way to test things.
Click to expand...

Okay, again... learn the names. "Squeeze" is 16:9. What you keep calling "16x9 aspect ratio footage" is Letterbox mode on the DVX, which is intended to be treated always as a 4:3 image since the black letterbox matte is recorded as part of the image. This is not anamorphic.

"Squeeze," though it comes in as 4:3 (because the chips in the DVX are native 4:3), is stretched to true 16:9 on a 16:9 monitor or in an anamorphic project in FCP or other NLE. Otherwise, it has a horizontally-squished look. And it has no letterbox matte. This is anamorphic.
 
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Clear up

Clear up

I'm sorry...this is all just very confusing to me You guys are all professionals as this is just a hobby of mine. After reading through all these threads and literally going through them one by one from as far as 2005, I still don't see the clarification I'm looking for. It's definitely just me, but I feel that many individuals are wording their answers/explanations differently. I was much better at A/P Chemistry...

*READ THROUGHLY*

Here is the clarification I'm looking for:

What happens when you set your display aspect ratio to 4x3 and then shoot the image with the normal, squeeze, and letterbox mode.

What happens when you set your display aspect ratio to 16x9 and shoot the image with the normal, squeeze, and letterbox mode.

My understanding is this:

Turn on the camera:

Go to your display options and make sure your aspect ratio is 4:3.

If you change your settings in the scene file to normal, you will see 4x3 normal.
If you change your settings in the scene file to letterbox, you will see black bars on the top and bottom of your 4x3 image.
If you change your settings in the scene file to squeeze, you will see a distorted image on your LCD, but this will provide you a true 16x9 image on a 16x9 display.

Question: If this is correct, then it seems like this is the only purpose for this option. Is it possible to playback this squeezed image on both a 4/3 and 16x9 display?

Does this all sound correct?

Next...

Turn on the camera:

Go to your display options and make sure your aspect ratio is 16x9.

If you change your settings in the scene file to normal, you will see a 16x9 image with black bars on top and bottom.
If you change your settings in the scene file to letterbox, you will see a 16x9 image with double black bars on top and bottom, as you are letter-boxing your letterbox.
If you change your settings in the scene file to squeeze, I have no idea what this does...

How does all this sound?

A little post-production...

The way I have worked with 16x9 aspect ratio footage with a normal setting (no letterbox, no squeeze) in Final Cut, is I just capture the footage with the NTSC anamorphic workflow.

Is this correct?

How would I work with 4x3 aspect ratio footage with the squeezed setting in Final Cut?

Ideally, I would like to have all my questions answered with the slightest bit of detail and clarification, but that's not what I expect. I just really want to thank anyone who read this, has the patience to deal with me, takes the time to explain any of this, clarify little points here and there, or just flat out call me crazy.
 
Let me try to take a crack at this:

The DVX100B (which I assume is what you are using) allows for a nifty new feature in the display mode: it allows you to see a unsqueezed image.

When you change display modes all you are doing is changing the way the LCD views the footage. This is no way shape or form affects the actual recorded image.

This feature was there because those who used the DVX100A or DVX100 and shot in Squeeze mode, saw just that a Squeezed image (a horizontally squeezed image). This meant that the only way to watch the image in its proper aspect ratio was to plug the camera to a widescreen screen, or wait until the edit room. To make it easier for camera operators and for framing purposes, panasonic included the option to allow for the LCD to unsqueeze the image in real time.

There are three methods of recording on the DVX100s:

Normal : This is a 4:3 image.

Letterbox: This is a 4:3 image with black bars on top and bottom. Its basically a kind of fake wide screen. This is really only a legacy option, as the only time I can think of you wanting to use this...well I really can't think of a time to use this. I would chose to shoot 4:3, use masking tape on the LCD, then add the bars in post, this way you have the area the black bars are covering if you needed to reframe in post.

Squeeze: Horizontally squeezes the footage, much the same way an anamorphic adapter would, think of it as a software solution instead of a hardware solution (using an anamorphic adapter in front of the lens of the DVX and shooting in normal mode). Its a very viable solution (the resolution loss imho is minimal and acceptable) and it beats trying to make sure your anamorphic adapter is perfectly alligned.

When you set your lcd aspect ratio to 4:3 and watch squeeze mode footage you're basically emulating a user of a DVX100a. When you set your lcd aspect ratio to 16:9 and shoot in squeeze mode you should see bars on top and bottom of your LCD because the monitor itself is unsqueezing your footage.

When you change your display's aspect ratio you're not affecting your footage. That is simply for monitoring purposes.
 
Response

Response

Thank you for your response.

Hmm..that seems to make a lot more sense..

So DVX100a users only had the ability to view the squeezed image in a 4:3 display. But now DVX10b users have the ability to view the unsqueezed image in the 16x9 lcd display.

They should just block that option out when you're shooting squeezed. Who's going to view it in the 4x3 when they have the opportunity to see the unsqueezed image....

Anyway, I seem to understand it much better now but I don't see how the display doesn't affect your footage. If I shoot something in 16x9 (normal), it's going to look different than in the 4x3 (normal) and I have to treat it differently in post...

Or if I decided to shoot in the 16x9 lcd display with the letterbox option on, it's going to look even more different than if I just decide to shoot 4x3 normal...
 
No, with the DVX100a, if you shoot in 16:9, you can only see the 16:9 footage streched to fit the 4:3 display.

With the DVX100b, there is a new option that displays the 16:9 footage in a 4:3 letter box display, but it is still a 16:9 footage that is being recorded. So, during the editing, it will fit a 16:9 sequence.

If you choose 4:3 letter box instead of 16:9, this will record a 4:3 footage with black bars on top and bottom of the 4:3 image.

Just try every options and put them in 4:3 and 16:9 sequences, you'll see the difference.
 
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The DISPLAY ASPECT RATIO is purely for preview purposes on the LCD. It doesn't effect what is recorded to tape. There is an AUTO setting, so you don't have to get confused.

One thing to note is that when the DISPLAY is set to 4:3, you get to see the full image, nothing is masked off on the edges. You see the full images you will see during editing. However, when you set the DISPLAY to 16:9, it is overscanned like a TV. It cuts off part of the images on ALL SIDES (including TOP and BOTTOM). So, you can accidentally get booms in your shot, and other undesirable framing. This makes the 16:9 DISPLAY mode pretty much useless for serious production.

Personally, I shoot SQUEEZE, but I set the DISPLAY to 4:3 so I don't miss something in the image. Sure, it looks funky in the LCD, but at least I can nail my framing and not worry about booms and C-stands in my shots.

Beware 16:9 LCD DISPLAY mode.
 
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