hmc150 vs. hvx200: no clear answer.

T

thenyfilmguy

New member
I've finally found out about the HMC150, and am now second guessing my saving for over a year for the HVX200. I run Final Cut Pro, on a 15" Macbookpro, so I have plenty of power for either the DVCPro or AVCHD codecs. However, I haven't been able to get a clear answer on which camera is more bang for the buck.
Very brief and nowhere complete reasons for either, so far:

HVX:

  • Tape and P2 options
  • more possible resolutions / frame rates
  • more thoroughly tried and tested
  • more recommendations
  • I've already configured my dream rig on it :)
  • I know where to buy it
  • AVCHD on the HMC - consumer grade?
  • HMC only records in 16:9?
  • No tape option on HMC, making transition more stark.
HMC:

  • SD much much MUCH cheaper than P2
  • more simple workflow?
  • Apple Pro-res codec makes editing easy (in FCP)
  • newer camera = upgraded CCD sensors?
Obviously I don't know much about the camera, as I've just discovered it, and I'm not sure all of my presumptions are accurate. All I'd like is a recommendation!

And if you could give some reasoning to it as well, it'd be greatly appreciated. My target purchase date is prior to June, and I'd like the camera to last me (through moderate use) for several years.
 
AVCHD is recorded at a maximum of 24 mbps, which is the maximum possible for that format as I recall. You may consider that "consumer grade," but I compare it to our previous 200 and it looks every bit as good or better.

It doesn't have the color space of DVCProHD, but I've compare its keys to the 200 and 170, and it's pretty darn good.

Probably less noise and better low light than the 200.

No 4:3 - true, but the world is moving away from SD, and you can always record and crop in post.

Loved our 200, but spend more time with our 150 than our 170
 
If you buy the new version of the HVX, the HVX200a, it's going to be the same sensor block as the HMC and HPX170. The HMC and HPX170 also share the same lens. And yes, it's a much improved sensor block over the original HVX

Which brings up a new question... are you aware of the HPX170? It's basically a P2 version of the HMC150 with a few other features added. Actually, I think it has a few more features than the HVX (someone correct me on that). About $1k more than the HMC, and I believe a few hundred cheaper than the HVX.

Unless you absolutely need to record DV on tape, there really is no reason to look at the the HVX, thus changing the question to the HMC vs. the HPX.

I've not shot on the HPX170 or HVX200a, and very little on the origianl HVX, but a few folks who have on here have said they really can't tell the difference. Because of the high bitrate possible, it's no more "consumer" than the DV or HDV formats (which ARE technically consumer formats after all).

As to resolutions and framerates, it gives you all the standard HD framerates and resolutions.

So the million dollar question... are at least the $5000 question... is what are you planning on using this for? Do you plan on doing tons of keying? do you plan on shooting a ton of slowmo? Or are you shooting weddings and presentations?
 
HMC150 > HVX200


HMC is thousands of dollars less... with a simpler workflow... and better image quality to boot.
 
ok now I am defenetly going to rent the 150 to see what all this fuss is about, I have been holding on my 2 hvx's so this might be it
 
I don't think you can really call the HMC "consumer grade" just because its AVCHD....its an extremly capable cam.
 
thenyfilmguy said:
I've finally found out about the HMC150, and am now second guessing my saving for over a year for the HVX200. I run Final Cut Pro, on a 15" Macbookpro, so I have plenty of power for either the DVCPro or AVCHD codecs. However, I haven't been able to get a clear answer on which camera is more bang for the buck.
Very brief and nowhere complete reasons for either, so far:

HVX:

  • Tape and P2 options
  • more possible resolutions / frame rates
  • more thoroughly tried and tested
  • more recommendations
  • I've already configured my dream rig on it :)
  • I know where to buy it
  • AVCHD on the HMC - consumer grade?
  • HMC only records in 16:9?
  • No tape option on HMC, making transition more stark.
HMC:

  • SD much much MUCH cheaper than P2
  • more simple workflow?
  • Apple Pro-res codec makes editing easy (in FCP)
  • newer camera = upgraded CCD sensors?
Obviously I don't know much about the camera, as I've just discovered it, and I'm not sure all of my presumptions are accurate. All I'd like is a recommendation!

And if you could give some reasoning to it as well, it'd be greatly appreciated. My target purchase date is prior to June, and I'd like the camera to last me (through moderate use) for several years.
Click to expand...

What do you want to use t for?
 
Mike Harvey said:
So the million dollar question... are at least the $5000 question... is what are you planning on using this for? Do you plan on doing tons of keying? do you plan on shooting a ton of slowmo? Or are you shooting weddings and presentations?
Click to expand...

I'm still in highschool, making this purchase to take me through all of my current productions and through college. Now I shoot mostly music videos and (action) sports, the two fields I'll most likely pursue after school as well. I'll be doing short films also, and am positive I'll need to key every now and again. I've also done some documentary work, interviews and such, but most of the mundane productions I've done (presentations, plays, etc.) have been with school, and not my cameras.

For my purposes, I'd like some nice slowmo options. Obviously I don't have a varicam budget, which is why I'm contemplating these cameras. I've used the DVX and HVX200 before, and love them both.

I know of the HPX, and the reason why I still choose the HVX over it is because of my own personal needs. With almost the same stats, the HVX still offers the tape option. When I'm shooting college productions on no budget, with no need for HD, I'm thinking I may stick with tape. However, I could be wrong. I just feel comforted by the option, as I've used miniDV or DVcam on nearly every single production I've done.

My two biggest concerns are simply:

  • cost
  • image quality
Which will give me the most bang for my buck, with not only the camera, but also the media (P2 and SD)?
 
sewolla said:
I don't think you can really call the HMC "consumer grade" just because its AVCHD....its an extremly capable cam.
Click to expand...

Yes, the "grade" is based on the implementation, and this is not a consumer grade implementation of AVCHD. It would be like saying Zeiss optics are consumer grade optics because Sony has used them on consumer camcorders, despite the fact that Zeiss makes the core optics for professional research instruments costing many millions of dollars.

Its all in the implementation.
 
More bang for your buck would clearly be the 150 over the 200.

However if it is more than just money and based on what you plan on using it for...
The 150 is the way to go.

If you're not using it for broadcasting I would not pay the extra cost for a P2 camera at this point.

Looks-wise they are very close and to some people the 150 wins.
 
I agree with Hidef.

SDHC Cards gives more bang for the buck compared to P2 media, if you have no intention on broadcasting any footage, go for the HMC150. SDHC cards are so cheap you'll feel like a thief even when buying them.
 
What benefit does the HMC offer over smaller hand held AVCHD cameras?
For instance- the new Canon HFs10 shoots 24mb 1920x1080.
I imagine the HMC might do better in low light? But besides that- why go for an HMC?
 
I'd imagine it would be more of a professional camera then other handheld AVCHD cameras. More manual ability, and higher quality features (such as its built in histogram and vectorscope). Also, while these cameras shoot at the same 'size' are they really the same quality? I'd say there's a big difference between the HMC and handheld AVCHD cameras.

But I could be wrong.
 
Man.. you can't compare the Canon to the HMC. Just not in the same class.


The canon is a single chip and not a 3 chip and its also not even 1/3 inch. It's also CMOS which is a huge nigtmare in a small cam for rolling shutter and the all too often dreaded "jello" video. I had a canon CMOS cam and sold it a month later. It was impossible to shoot fast motion and anything that was in extreme conditions. It coudn't handle vibrations and fast pans and flashes and it's just a very consumer camera with major limitations.


Besides been worse in low light, the mojo and color info would just not be there, besides the lack of manual controls, audio imuts, waveform and a whole mess of other things. I personally wouldn't ever consider another small formfactor CMOS. Just too many issues and too much crap footage produced.
 
thenyfilmguy said:
I'd imagine it would be more of a professional camera then other handheld AVCHD cameras. More manual ability, and higher quality features (such as its built in histogram and vectorscope). Also, while these cameras shoot at the same 'size' are they really the same quality? I'd say there's a big difference between the HMC and handheld AVCHD cameras.

But I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

No.
You are right.

Plus chips and glass as well as the other things you and Justyn listed.:thumbup:
 
Just like you said manual control and the video can be recorded at higherbitrates 20-25 Mb.

The hvx ofcourse is at 100Mb

This image is way better then the HV200 , I personally cant say about the 200a, but the HMC 150 suprises me everytime.

I shot some pickup shots for a news crew the other day and they had trouble cutting it with theire own footage , because the HMC is the lowlight champ in its class and some.
So I had to do the CC for them which meant more income if you edit aswell.
 
Also. I don't think there's a limit on the HMC in terms of broadcast. I routinely intercut 150 footage with HVX stuff and a lot of times the HMC looked better.. and during my broadcast run the 150 took over as the main cam and was features way more prominantly. I don't think it has the limitaion on the "broadcast" thing. Of course people who've invested in P2 and or pushing a more expensive cam, will slight the 150 but that's not giving the cam a fair shake. I owned both for a few months and the HVX got sold. I didn't buy the 170 like I though, I bought the better bang for the buck and frankly.. the difference is so slight so why bother with the expense. As the economy and the industry at large require better values, why be saddled with 8-9 grand in start up on a HVX200a, when 4k will get you rocking on a 150 and you could buy two for the same price.


I say big ups to the 150.... I love the panny cams.. and I really loved my HVX, but time marches on and I don't want to be forced to buy anything proprietary in terms of media. Right now I have enough SD cards to shoot 20 hours straight without a single data dump and then leave the cards intact till the gig is done... and if I wanted to get another 20 hours of SD cards, then that would cost me less than the cost of one 16 gig card, which would deliver 40 minutes of 720 and 16 minutes of 1080... I struggled with that for years, and thankfully not anymore!!!!
 
Everts.. you are so right there. I got shots with the 150 that were imposible with the 200.... The cam is really sweet and at this price affordable to a lot of people and will continue to deliver for a while...


cheers all and don't let people downgrade ya cam with slighting comments. I'd put the footie up against anything under 10k... might suffer a few things, but when considering the price savings I'll be happy to just sit there like a mute and take the rash comments. I know what I got was good and let people blame or commend their tools. It's still up to the man behind the controls to deliver the goods as we've all seen amazing and poor stuff shot on the best cams ever.


i mean, one of the worst films I've ever seen, Miami Vice, was shot on the viper. That movie is a cure for insomnia and should be wiped away from my memory. What crap!
 
Retrospective said:
I agree with Hidef.

SDHC Cards gives more bang for the buck compared to P2 media, if you have no intention on broadcasting any footage, go for the HMC150. SDHC cards are so cheap you'll feel like a thief even when buying them.
Click to expand...


You can definetly use this camera for broadcast.
I can't post any footy or screens sorry about that but HMC 150 footage has been aired lastnight on a european Cable Company. And probably not the first time.
 
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