AVCHD, why are some having problems and others not?

Ah i figured out my problem. I had two of them. First I updated my Perian to 1.1.3, second, I updated my FX Factory program to 2.0.6. The earlier versions of these programs seemed to conflict with both AVCHD & P2 Transfer in Final Cut Pro.
 
I had some buggy glitchy stuff with the older FCP sytem.. but since it's been updated no real problems at all. No more artifacting at the spanned clips and that.


For those who have been having trouble with FCP and CS3 or such.. I'd suggest capturing with the intensity card and or suitable capture device. That's what I did with the SD9 cam and this 150 till FCP was ready for primetime. It's realtime capturing and transcoding on the fly to pro-res and or DVCPRO HD. then you should be cool to edit on whatever NLE.


There was this kind of buggy crap with even P2 in the beginning. Versions of FCP 5 didn't work at all so I was forced to find one that did and stick with it till 6 came out and the bugs were not a problem anymore... Over time this will all come around.


I still personally think it's the best camera on the market in terms of what it offers and at this pricepoint.... Its simply a better image than the original HVX and those of us who were early adopters on that.. can understand the bleeding edge on this. I had my HVX for almost 3 years, but I can't say I've missed it at all.... except that it does greenscreen a bit easier than the 150. That's the only thing.


I also found out, much to my happiness.. that the HMC will downconvert a 4x3 image.. that's cool fo' show!
 
Justyn:

The Intensity board does not facilitate 24p does it with the 150?

In fact, no 24pNative for the 170 either.

Is that correct?
 
I'm not sure. I haven't done any 24p through the system. I think that it does support it.. When I'm over the studio I'll check the presets that come with the unit.


cheers
 
I just got a Lenovo S10 netbook for $375 out the door.
This is about the slowest computer there is.

I bought it mainly as an internet computer.
It has a 270 atom processor, 1 gig of ram, shared video, and a 10 inch screen.

Then I figured I would try to get this thing to play, and maybe edit some AVCHD.
I am convinced one does not need a quad core desktop to do this.

I pulled some 1080 24p AVCHD footage straight from the card and put it in to the slot.
It would not recognise this file at all.

Then I downloaded the latest Windows media player, and still no go.
Then I said to myself, "Self, you need to try core codec".

...So I did.


..Well it did recognise the footage and it even played it....
but only at around 18 frames a second.

I did not expect that from this system, especially 1080p footage.
I will soon upgrade to 2 gig ram, and a 7200 hard drive.

Not sure if that will help, but I can't see why others with faster systems can't play or edit AVCHD.

As another test, I tried to play the same file as a cineform file.
It played about the same way with neo player.

Then I converted the whole thing to a compressed flash file at 1280x720 24p
and it played it perfectly.

This leads me to believe that any core 2 duo system, 2 gighz with enough ram running windows xp
(This system was running XP home) would be able to play and edit this footage.

That's my experience..
 
thanks for that, that makes me feel better about it. my macbook is 2.2 ghz core 2 duo, 4gb (well 3.3 since that's all it can use hahah) and i was worried about it not working, but now i'm just that much closer to making a purchase.
 
Green Hornet said:
I just got a Lenovo S10 netbook for $375 out the door.
This is about the slowest computer there is.

I bought it mainly as an internet computer.
It has a 270 atom processor, 1 gig of ram, shared video, and a 10 inch screen.

Then I figured I would try to get this thing to play, and maybe edit some AVCHD.
I am convinced one does not need a quad core desktop to do this.

I pulled some 1080 24p AVCHD footage straight from the card and put it in to the slot.
It would not recognise this file at all.

Then I downloaded the latest Windows media player, and still no go.
Then I said to myself, "Self, you need to try core codec".

...So I did.


..Well it did recognise the footage and it even played it....
but only at around 18 frames a second.

I did not expect that from this system, especially 1080p footage.
I will soon upgrade to 2 gig ram, and a 7200 hard drive.

Not sure if that will help, but I can't see why others with faster systems can't play or edit AVCHD.

As another test, I tried to play the same file as a cineform file.
It played about the same way with neo player.

Then I converted the whole thing to a compressed flash file at 1280x720 24p
and it played it perfectly.

This leads me to believe that any core 2 duo system, 2 gighz with enough ram running windows xp
(This system was running XP home) would be able to play and edit this footage.

That's my experience..
Click to expand...

You are talking about 2 VERY different things.
Playing AVCHD and Editing Native AVCHD
the latter is than divided into 2:
Editing with Premiere CS4 and editing with any other software that supports native AVCHD

I believe most computers can play via directshow any AVCHD originated from the HMC. THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE CORE CODEC! The built in codec in the free K-lite Mega codec pack is good enough (it's using FFDshow).

As for editing most users are unable to edit with CS4 since it's inner AVCHD support is VERY CPU consuming allowing only EXTREME high end computers the possibility of viewing in real time.
Editing in other software (Edius / Vegas) is possible with high end computers but has it's own issues.

None of the editing software has anything to do with Core's plugin.
 
I agree. I can play just about any AVCHD footage using VLC without a hiccup.

But throw that into Premiere CS4 on a dual core MacPro with 8 GBs of RAM, and all I see are hangs.

Playing is an altogether different story than editing.
 
On a PC, they are very similiar (playing and editing)
The codec decodes the footage. That is what is needed to edit it.
CS4 needs to be able to decode it first, and then from there you can ENCODE it into whate ever you like.

Having the ability to DECODE the footage (same thing that a player does) is important.
If you can't decode it, you can't edit it, and you can't do anything with it.

A base system will not edit AVCHD as there is nothing to decode the footage.
I have been editing AVCHD footage from a Canon HF10 for about 10 months.
I have recently been editing AVCHD from the HMC150 for about 3 months.
I never knew others were having a problem untill I bought the HMC150 and started reading here.

My point is that every one else is having problems editing this footage,
I am not.

None of my computers are super fast, and I was attempting to figure out what the weak link is.

Maybe it's a Mac issue.

Maybe you need a dedicated video card.

WHo knows.

No one is offering suggestions, only saying they can't do it.

For me, it seems like a decoding issue as I have heard that on a PC it is just slow.

On Mac's with premiere ,cs4, you say it "hangs".

That sounds like a Mac issue in working with CS4. What exactly is "hang"? It locks up, crashes, and stops doing anything?



If I could install Premiere on a slower system to prove a point, I would.
I just don't want Adobe to deactivate me bacause of that.

Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see why on a PC, if you can playback full screen 1080p images within CS4, why you can't edit it?

When you set up a project in CS4, that becomes the ENCODING parameters, not decoding.
Any file you bring into CS4, will be played back in the format it was created in untill you render, or save the file, or export it.

If that is the case, that I understand it to be, the DECODER does matter.

For me, mainconcept decoder for AVCHD is slow.

Lets see what is in common.

1) People who can't edit AVCHD seem to be mainly on Mac.
2) People who can't edit AVCHD are using CS4 with main concept decoder.
3) People who can't edit avchd don't have any other acceleration for AVCHD.

What else is in common?
 
We have a 512 MB video card. It's a PCI E card.

ATi 3870.

Hang = lock up.

However, I believe that this occurs when I try to use 720p footage in a 1080 preset.

Matching footage to a 1080/24p performs better, although huge artifacting and poor transcodes on the footage.

Hope this helps.

Perhaps when Adobe gets some 720p presets, we can test further.
 
Green Hornet said:
On a PC, they are very similiar (playing and editing)
The codec decodes the footage. That is what is needed to edit it.
CS4 needs to be able to decode it first, and then from there you can ENCODE it into whate ever you like.

Having the ability to DECODE the footage (same thing that a player does) is important.
If you can't decode it, you can't edit it, and you can't do anything with it.

A base system will not edit AVCHD as there is nothing to decode the footage.
I have been editing AVCHD footage from a Canon HF10 for about 10 months.
I have recently been editing AVCHD from the HMC150 for about 3 months.
I never knew others were having a problem untill I bought the HMC150 and started reading here.

My point is that every one else is having problems editing this footage,
I am not.

None of my computers are super fast, and I was attempting to figure out what the weak link is.

Maybe it's a Mac issue.

Maybe you need a dedicated video card.

WHo knows.

No one is offering suggestions, only saying they can't do it.

For me, it seems like a decoding issue as I have heard that on a PC it is just slow.

On Mac's with premiere ,cs4, you say it "hangs".

That sounds like a Mac issue in working with CS4. What exactly is "hang"? It locks up, crashes, and stops doing anything?



If I could install Premiere on a slower system to prove a point, I would.
I just don't want Adobe to deactivate me bacause of that.

Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see why on a PC, if you can playback full screen 1080p images within CS4, why you can't edit it?

When you set up a project in CS4, that becomes the ENCODING parameters, not decoding.
Any file you bring into CS4, will be played back in the format it was created in untill you render, or save the file, or export it.

If that is the case, that I understand it to be, the DECODER does matter.

For me, mainconcept decoder for AVCHD is slow.

Lets see what is in common.

1) People who can't edit AVCHD seem to be mainly on Mac.
2) People who can't edit AVCHD are using CS4 with main concept decoder.
3) People who can't edit avchd don't have any other acceleration for AVCHD.

What else is in common?
Click to expand...

You cannot replace the AVCHD decoder in Premiere.
The only thing you could do is replace a dll in Premiere's main folder, but I don't which dll that is and even if I did I am not a codec designer.
Premiere does not use directshow
Core is a directshow codec
To prove my point, you can choose in the "Core" settings to show the icon on the system tray whenever it's in use.
What you will see, is that no matter what type of file you edit in premiere that icon won't appear.
When you will play an AVCHD file in Windows media player or any other video player the icon will appear in the tray.

However in some tests I have done I guess your processor might do the trick. I'm getting close to real-time playback with my E6400, I have done some adjustments in my computer and added more memory and now it works much faster.
I believe that with any core 2 duo @ 3ghz or a quad-core, AVCHD material is editable.
So maybe there are some issues with mac.

however, still some major issues in premiere: no 720p support.
 
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David S. said:
We have a 512 MB video card. It's a PCI E card.

ATi 3870.

Hang = lock up.

However, I believe that this occurs when I try to use 720p footage in a 1080 preset.

Matching footage to a 1080/24p performs better, although huge artifacting and poor transcodes on the footage.

Hope this helps.

Perhaps when Adobe gets some 720p presets, we can test further.
Click to expand...

Try using the XDCAM 720p presets.
Edit: this preset works but performance is very poor and premiere hangs sometimes
What do you mean by "huge artifacting and poor transcodes on the footage." the picture is not clear?
 
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I've tried that but still get hangs with the footage.

I was disappointed with all the artifacts apparent in any 1080 footage I brought into Premiere.

Very disappointed because when playing off the card in VLC, none was apparent.
 
lirany said:
You cannot replace the AVCHD decoder in Premiere.
The only thing you could do is replace a dll in Premiere's main folder, but I don't which dll that is and even if I did I am not a codec designer.
Premiere does not use directshow
Core is a directshow codec
To prove my point, you can choose in the "Core" settings to show the icon on the system tray whenever it's in use.
What you will see, is that no matter what type of file you edit in premiere that icon won't appear.
When you will play an AVCHD file in Windows media player or any other video player the icon will appear in the tray.

However in some tests I have done I guess your processor might do the trick. I'm getting close to real-time playback with my E6400, I have done some adjustments in my computer and added more memory and now it works much faster.
I believe that with any core 2 duo @ 3ghz or a quad-core, AVCHD material is editable.
So maybe there are some issues with mac.

however, still some major issues in premiere: no 720p support.
Click to expand...


The main concept plug in is called: ad2dsh264.ax and ad2esh264.ax
They are direct show filters.

You can disable them by going to the command prompt where the file reside and type:

regsvr32.exe -u
and then the file name as above.

That line will disable the codec(s)

In CS4, the main concept codec will block all other codecs from playing AVCHD.

For the record, I am using NVIDA CUDA drivers for video.

I see there is not much interest in this thread so I will let it go at that.

Good luck guys :beer:
 
Ok so from what I see so far,
PC's can edit and mac's can't when using Premiere CS4.

I have a 2 gig core 2 duo laptop and 4 gigs of ram with Nvida video card running cuda drivers
(both nvidia video card and cuda drivers are said to accelerate AVCHD).
So I guess that is the baseline system that you need to edit this stuff....


When cineform fully supports CS4, then it will be a no brainer to go that route.
CS3 already edits like DV when using cineform.
(That was how i use to do it, but since the cineform presets are not there in CS4, I just edit AVCHD, as I can do that too)

Cineform maintains better color when adding effects, but lately I have been doing just straight cuts editing wiht the AVCHD footage.
 
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it's dumb that a core 2 duo laptop with windows can do it, and apparently a core 2 duo with osx can't. it's sad because the hmc150 is really the only camera I even want to buy.
 
THis is just the beginning stages which things catch up and work themselves out. You can capture via an intensity card or other suitable application. Maybe transcoding in another program and or borrowing another friends comp.


Currently I'm bumming time on a friends MacPro to do the transcoding as I can't do it on my main G4 editing comp. Thought I'd have a new comp by now but recent cut backs have limited my spending potenial this year as it has with a lot of others. I don't regret the 150 and enourage people to hang in.. see what happens and then make decision upon buying.
 
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