"handycam"-like, personal use HDish, FCP friendly cam?

wgzn

wgzn

Veteran
im needing a personal-use (party, vacation, etc...) camera. like to keep price well below a grand - to the tune of if it fell off the boat you wouldnt cry.

needs to be FCP friendly, HDish res.

been out of the consumer cam market for YEARs and have no idea what the state of things is...

suggestions?
 
The entire line of new Canon cameras are pretty amazing for the buck.

Starting with the HV20/HV30/HV40 (same camera just updated models) which record to tape can be had for ~$650ish dollars and give you HDV 24p/30p/60i. They're not the greatest in low light, but really no small HD camera will be.

There are the canon series cameras with the Hardrives HF20 or HF10 which record to the newer and better AVCHD format instead of HDV. They record to internal harddrives or SDHC cards, I've only played with the HF20 and it was pretty impressive. These typically run a few hundred dollars more than the HV20/HV30, but are even smaller.

Overall consumer camcorders get updated so quickly that its hard to keep up with them. I know canon just announced a slew of new consumer camcorders that are updates to the models I just mentioned, but their pricing has not been anounced yet and they're not available yet.
 
yeah i've seen good results with my friend's HV30, which he got for $800. Even has 24p.

Id say look for a used HV20, you could probably get a good one for around $500
 
The new Canon Vixias, just introduced at CES a few weeks ago look to be the ones to beat in the consumer arena. They are putting a lot of pro features on these, obviously aiming them at pros as well as consumers. How about a consumer camera that features...

1. Two level Zebras
2. Mic input with manual audio levels with 24 segment on-screen metering
3. multi stage ND
4. color bars with tone
5. 24p, 30p and 60i
6. Full raster 1920 x 1080 recording
7. Data rates as high as 24mbps
8. Color peaking for focus
9. Multi stage gain 0, 6, 12 and 18dB

The new models to check out are the HFS10, HFS100, HF20 and HF200 http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=173

I think they are available in March. As long as you have an Intel Mac or fast PC, AVCHD is more of an inconvenience than a hindrance. You transcode it to a better editing codec, wich is the same thing you should be doing with HDV anyway so no real loss there. I will be buying one of these models for a travel documentary I will be shooting where I need to be small and unobtrusive.

The only lingering question is how noisy the new CMOS imagers and DigicIII processor are in low light. The upper two models have an eight megapixel imager for stills and the lower line have a three megapixel imager. Waiting for some real world tests coming soon.

Dan
 
I have been reading some reviews of the Panasonic. It looks pretty decent but there are a few nagging things on it that Panasonic didn't address that make it not as desirable to me.

1. In my mind, a hard drive camcorder is already outdated, I would much prefer to shoot only to SDHC cards. You can shoot to SD cards on the Panny but who wants the extra size and weight of a hard drive if you are not using it?

2. The Panasonic is larger and heavier. For the project I am buying a Canon for, the foremost feature that I need is small size and light weight.

3. The Panasonic reports to only have 6 or 8 segments to the on-screen audio meter whereas the Canon is reported to have 24 segments. Much finer control and we all know how important audio control is.

4. The Panasonic tops out at 17mbps vs. 24mbps on the Canons

5. Panasonic gives 11 increments of exposure control, Canon gives 23

6. Battery life on hard drive camcorders is shorter than SS media camcorders (no moving parts)

Of course, the Panasonic offers several features that are better than the Canons

1. Manual focus ring

2. Better manual gain control

3. A viewfinder

4. 3Mos imagers

As far as your question about will 3 imagers produce better images than one? It depends. The Sony EX1 has 3 CMOS imagers. The RED One has one CMOS imager. So I think that matter is debatable and nobody will know for sure until there is a side by side shootout.

But for me, I am leaning toward the Canon Vixia HFS100 mainly because of size, the Canon look is excellent, and more professional features. Oh yeah and i HATE touchscreens like the Panasonic uses, yuck.

Dan
 
I think the HS200 or some of the other versions? is SD only. My question on the chips is more like if 3MOS per se would give a better image than CMOS or CCD's.
 
In Switzerland the HS300 hard drive camcorder has not been announced (yet). Instead they have the HDC-TM300 3MOS camcorder with 32GB flash memory and SD card. Weight: 385g without battery.
I guess that a few arguments against the Pana are not valid anymore.
 
jjb said:
I guess that a few arguments against the Pana are not valid anymore.
Click to expand...

Unless they don't release that model over here in the U.S.? Haven't heard anything about it over here, do you think it will be a Euro only model or will they release it here?

Dan
 
Hmm...interesting, although the hyperbole on that website is kind of obnoxious. I do wonder if the old three imagers must be better than one will apply to these new Panasonics? Will be great to see a shootout between the Canon HFS10 and the TMC300, they look pretty comparable in most departments.

Dan
 
i film kitesurfing and im thinking of upgrading/downgrading my xha1 to the hdc-tm300 as its the first compact camera i have seen with decent controls ive also looked at the canon hfs10 but the panny wins over for me because
the focus ring is a multi function ring that can control zoom apeture and gain, i find that i can zoom a lot smoother with a ring than the rocker buttons that small camcorders usually have, i dont think the canon lets you control the gain which from my experience with the xha1 on auto gain gives terible results
also the panny gives me more zoom, not as much as the xha1 unfortunatly but im sure i can live with that

for me the xha1 is too big and impractical, i just ope i can get decent results with the panny

any feedback before i comit would be welcome
 
If I were you, I would wait until Camcorder info or one of the other sites gets their paws on the Panasonic and on the HFS10 and does some low light comparison shooting.

Then again, if you film kitesurfing, I guess low light wouldn't be a factor. For your needs, I do think the zoom ring on the Panasonic would play a big part. For me, I hate zooms while shooting in general so it probably wouldn't matter as much.

Dan
 
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