••Why do You Guys Continue to Shoot on the EX1?••

Er... the colour is better when someone thinks the colour is better... when they look at an image and go hmm, i prefer that look, ill buy that cam for it produces 'that' look. People laud the panny mojo for its 'look', we've heard it since the dvx. Who the heck goes 'wow... the EX organic look astounds me... ;) maybe some here, but its thang is resolution.

Comparing numbers means nothing, watching films produced on them does...
 
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Yep,

Mojo is not good for nature, reality tv stuff, very sharp look, it is good for indie films actually it is great for indie films.

All the talk about the rolling shutter's don't look good on paper but in real world use it is minimal unless you are trying to demonstrate it on purpose.

Watch Storm Chasers, it's on Discovery Channel every Sunday night. It has extreme conditions for cmos cameras with all the lightning, emergncy vehicle flashing lights etc. 90% of it was shot on Sony Z7's.

I was in the episode last week.

70%-80% of Iditarod was shot on hvx's, that is also on Discovery Channel and has the mojo look. I think it would no doubt look better if they didn't use the mojo look or shot it with ex-1's.
 
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I think the ex1 is a fine hd cam for the price, and it basicly comes down to needs. I needed a cam that gets me closest to film without a stuggle in post to get there, and straight out the box the mass majority of people ecknowledge that the hvx delivers just that. I've yet to surf a forum with filmmakers begging for recipeis to make their hvx look like an ex1 or any other camera for that matter. But in reality the dvx an hvx has set the standard in terms of gama and color for cameras in its price range, and the ex1 has set the standard for resolution and sharpness in its price range. In the end I chose the mojo and wow factor over the video look.
 
And I choose to stay off the sony trail for their basic client policy, their battery warfare and the postpro woes. been there, done it and was never really happy.

I do wish panasonic made a better lcd display though! focusing on the hvx 201 aint fun !
 
Super8 said:
thanks for the info...do you have any of your videos online so i can take a look?
is it easy to pick it up and shoot? or do i ned extensive training..Ive shot with the DSR300's and DSR-130
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I don't have any videos online yet. In fact I just watch my footage straight from the XDCAM Transfer software. I have 1.2 beeeellion hours of footage and have yet to open up Final Cut Studio. I wish I didn't have a day job, ha!

As for it being easy to shoot, it's quite simple just to put in a SxS card and hit "record" and let full auto do your stuff and get decent footage, but learning all the manual stuff and the fine tuning/tweaking that's available is time consuming for me. I'm not familiar with the two cameras you mentioned but if they are full-featured cameras and you're used to how things work I'd guess the EX1 is pretty straight forward. My learning curve on the manual stuff is a little steeper because this is the first video camera I've owned that isn't simply me toggling between record and pause.
 
lawriejaffa said:
You've been on this forum for years Super8 is there really a need to ask this same, mind numbing question? It's like we know the reason why each person likes their respective cam off by heart?
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My reasons are as valid as any new person that has ever asked me 10, 20, 30 times if I like one of my 35mm adapters over my other 3 I own, or if I do like the handling of my DVX100 over my GY-HD100 or my new GY-HD250 or the other cameras I have in the shop..or the other countless questions I'v been asked over and over. I treat every question with the same seriousness and respect as a true video enthusiast... and only have Barry Green to thank...In my opinion he is pure class. I have seen him patiently and with professionalism answer over and over and over the same line of questions...either with a gentle re-direct to a question already posted with the same characteristics or with a fresh, toned down answer if the member is new to the forums. I would expect everyone on the DVX forum to treat each question asked with the same respect as we owe to each other as colleagues...if you have nothing constructive to add, why then shoot someone down?

lawriejaffa said:
Did you honestly not know that most EX users use it because of higher Resolution? Longer Record times etc... and that folks who use panny's do so cos they prefer the organic look, intraframe codec, no rolling shutter.
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I only asked out of curiosity...Sony was never in my radar and as I said, i only got interested after reading a trade magazine i found last night. Off course I read that it has higher resolution, longer recording times...but sometimes those technicalities could be overshadowed by professional opinion. I am looking to the psyche of each shooter. Do I prefer the DVX100 over the GY-HD250...absolutely...becuase of the look..the "mojo" that you call...but put me on an ENG style shoot and I will take any day the JVC...why? The lens...true shooters feel...That is what i look for in the answers...experience..unbiased..unlectured.

lawriejaffa said:
Heres a solution... if you have enough to buy one, you have enough to go find one to try out. If you can't do that, why not watch the films entered into TwiFest- check out the EX ones and the HVX/HPX ones. It's abstract but will give you a much better impression if 'image quality' is better.
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I've been looking all over the place...again..nothing beats true unbiased experiences like the great responses I have been getting here...and hopefuly this thread will serve as a great tool for some other shooter that finds himself in the same dilema. Had I found the answers on this board...I would have not asked right?

lawriejaffa said:
Your thread title just smacks of a guy wanting reassurance, as if your wanting these EX users to give you some man cuddle to make you feel good about a purchase. In some parts of the city you gotta pay for that kinda treatment ;)

It makes no difference asking 'hey guys can you tell me what to buy?' or 'hey why is camera x more awesome than camera y? Its lazy and it just means poor old Buck has to copy and paste his laudets and it gets ol' Perrone excited!
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I am going to make myself believe that this is probably a sort of dry sense of humor that has totally gone over my head. As a long time member, I've dealt with different personalities and to each their own. Sad if the poster rather than myself would have been a newbie that rather than getting a honest, helpful answer, walks away reading your response with a bad taste in his mouth
 
Yep well, i mean point is - the question you ask has no real answer, its just a kind of subjective call for reassurance... If you took the time to look in the forums we could save the inevitable tit for tat that comes from folk praising or slagging off cams. When you do examine the forums, you may notice the repeat of the kind of posts this topic has in *drum roll* other topics. We get EX guys saying one thing, hvx guys saying another etc... all because some guy just decides he can't be bothered checking the forums for his answer ;)

lol and i apolagise if ive left a bad taste in your mouth!
 
Rented the EX1.

cant stand the Video look.


and cant stand the rolling shutter.

The panny looks great. Doesnt look soft to me, or my clients, and I've had some big ones.
 
Hate to say it Super8, but I agree with lawriejaffa. Too many people ask the same general question that really have no answer and only serves to start flame war. "Why is this camera better than this camera?" That's not a specific request for information; it's a subjective question that can only get subjective responses like "I like the filmic color" or "I hate the video look." These questions are a pet peeve of mine as in the end you'll learn absolutely nothing and people tend to get really riled up. People have totally different concept of what makes a camera "good"; personally I need my camera to have good resolution, the colors I can easily manipulate on set or in post, I can't manufacture sharpness. For other people it's about the "organic look, filmic color"; that's fine too.

Instead of asking a general question, here's how you make a decision. You research the specific strength of the respective cameras (chip size, CCD or CMOS, resolution, depth of control, format etc.), then look at the footage (there are plenty lying around) and finally try to get your hand on the camera to check out if possible. Then if you have specific question about the technical strength and weaknesses then come back and ask and you're likely to get a better response. Ask yourself what is important to you, and not us.
 
Yep glad you agree Hey Vu, so don't panic Super8 we're not gonna lynch ya! ;) But thats likely the response folk who ask these kinds of subjective questions are gonna get, especially given the passion of folks that use these respective cams and how much it spoils the atmos here! :)
 
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Super 8, whatcha' wanna be shootin' on either the hvx or ex-1? Did anyone ask or care?

Diferent projects for different camera's.

Gotta run, sand hogs is on tv right now.
 
FYI it's people that have many different opinions that make this a great board!

When threads get closed it's not good for anyone. (I did say that :)) We are human and have opinions and that's the way it should always be! Don't take any response personal, do your home work and buy the camera that has the best look for your projects!

After you pic your camera you'll find out faster that no one really cares about the camera and it has more to do with the content you shoot than with what camera you used.

Peace!

Sorry dog, I had 3 minutes during a commercial break!
 
Ahhh..... I think I just figured out this Panasonic/Sony thing....... Kinda like the Canon/Nikon thing in stills, except maybe worse.
Most of you in this forum are "Junior" film makers and/or "Junior" business people. Now.... Don't get your panties all in a bunch. You saved your hard earned money for your "one" camera. Or you maybe currently gainfully employed..... In another industry and want to be a film maker. Or what ever.... Plunking 4-5-6-7-8-9-10 grand down on Video gear is a hard hit and you have to work your azz off for it!
Big..... Huge props to you.... You should be commended on making the commitment to better yourself!
So.... Now here lies the problem ..... What side of the fence do you invest in. We all want to feel good about what we invested our money in. We go to these forums to learn and share with like minded people and the last thing were looking for is to be divided by mojo and rolling shutters.
Your gonna use your "One" camera for all your projects so you better have made the right choice.

I just bought two Sony EX3 after many people telling me I needed the Panasonic 170/200a. Boy, Did I feel like I was going against the grain. The Sony cameras are going to be perfect for my specific purpose and more. But the EX3 is not my "One" camera. I'm not married to it.... As soon as I get a job where another camera is needed.... Boom, I'll just rent something else and charge it back to the client.

How far off am I?

frisco
 
Yes! I am completely brand agnostic. I started shooting with a Sony, then move to Canon, owned a JVC for a while and the last film I DPed was on an HVX. I would have no problem switching brand if in my estimation the camera does what I need at a price I can afford.
 
frisco said:
Ahhh..... I think I just figured out this Panasonic/Sony thing....... Kinda like the Canon/Nikon thing in stills, except maybe worse.
Most of you in this forum are "Junior" film makers and/or "Junior" business people. Now.... Don't get your panties all in a bunch. You saved your hard earned money for your "one" camera. Or you maybe currently gainfully employed..... In another industry and want to be a film maker. Or what ever.... Plunking 4-5-6-7-8-9-10 grand down on Video gear is a hard hit and you have to work your azz off for it!
Big..... Huge props to you.... You should be commended on making the commitment to better yourself!
So.... Now here lies the problem ..... What side of the fence do you invest in. We all want to feel good about what we invested our money in. We go to these forums to learn and share with like minded people and the last thing were looking for is to be divided by mojo and rolling shutters.
Your gonna use your "One" camera for all your projects so you better have made the right choice.

I just bought two Sony EX3 after many people telling me I needed the Panasonic 170/200a. Boy, Did I feel like I was going against the grain. The Sony cameras are going to be perfect for my specific purpose and more. But the EX3 is not my "One" camera. I'm not married to it.... As soon as I get a job where another camera is needed.... Boom, I'll just rent something else and charge it back to the client.

How far off am I?

frisco
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Frisco,

Very well said!

If we had money to burn we would own all the camera's.

Great post.
 
Matttrebor said:
hi everyone,
this is a fast "color versus" between ex1 and hvx200. showing the superiority of the ex1 in resolution AND color.
http://www.barrhauss.com/projets/repaire/ex-vs-200/
It's in french, so here is the main conclusion :
the HVX200 is 422, but the 720x540 has to do some oversampling, so at final, the ex1's color is better because of its true 1920x1080.
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Those specs might have been for a PAL hvx so it's worse for us ntsc guys. I think pal's have the 1440 res and the ntsc's have 1280???

Way to post an article no one can read :)
 
Super 8,

You still out buying film?

Just kidding, what are you going to use your camera for? Indie movie's? Reality tv stuff?

Just don't say reality tv, nature stuff and indie movies :)
 
ChipG said:
Super 8,

You still out buying film?

Just kidding, what are you going to use your camera for? Indie movie's? Reality tv stuff?

Just don't say reality tv, nature stuff and indie movies :)
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Actually...I still shoot film...until they sell the last reel!

Most of my projects are long format corporate work and some national spots...most of the high end stuff shot with the HDX900 and some cine primes.

When ir comes down to choosing a camera....Love portability but not crazy about functionality when I don't have control knows at my fingertips...the only excption I ever made was when I got the Panasonic DVX100...why...cause I feel in love with the look.

Have done one or two small shorts...nothing to start getting my tux out for the Oscars. I do love the look the Panny's have, but like you I am a champion for content over "look"

The am not a fan of color correcting in post...I try to get the "beautiful" at production. I have access to many cameras as I rent according to what the project demands for. This camera would be just to add to my little personal arsenal of fun toys...personal projects...few documentaries...some small music videos...in the HDV format all I own are two JVC GY-HD100 and a GY-250...not crazy about them...need something more portable...tapeless...with a pro feel at my fingertips...forget about the small Canon HV30's...my fat fingers can't control the little itsy buttons.

I've read over the past two days more and more about the EX1 and EX3. On paper they look impressive..yet i have yet to find anyone around here that owns one so I can take a look at it.......

I love to shoot outdoors...my favorite shoot was 6 days at Grand Canyon documenting hiking from rim to rim
 
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For all who are looking for a "out of the box" look, also stay away from shooting film and RED.
The RED you HAVE to correct in post. There's no internal prepackaged looks.
 
Super 8,

There's got to be a rental house somewhere in Florida where you can rent one for a day. Has to be!

That's the only way you'll know. I did what you're doing now, ask a lot of questions. I got some good feedback and I got some responses that were just advertisements. I read a bunch of articles/reviews before I realized they were advertisements written by insiders (nothing wrong with that...I used to read Galen Rowell's columns religiously and then when he died I realized they were often ads for Nikon.....as long as you realize it's an ad).

In the end I'm certain the only way you can decide is to lay hands on one for a day or two. And I'll share a piece of advice I got from some other forum: buy a "How to" DVD to familiarize yourself with the product before you rent/borrow so you can optimize your experience.

In NY an EX-1 rental is about $400/day which is a lot cheaper than spending $6k on something only to realize that you really did want the mojo look. Find a house that will apply the rental to purchase price.

And finally, none of these cams are perfect. Small buttons, UV contamination, poor ergonomics (EX-1) vs lower resolution, wobble {now fixed?}, noise, cost of media (170). I've given up on the rolling shutter issue since I have a CMOS camera now and have never been bothered by it. Pick the one who's imperfections least impact your work and style.

Good luck
 
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