64GB P2 Card announcment

ChipG said:
I do not have a red but it's not hard to realize they are #1 for listening to customers.

Does the Panasonic CEO chime in here to address our questions or issues?

Hello? Waiting....
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#1 in what? Which customers? You & Me? Ease of workflow? Camera sales?

Not sure the Panny CEO would be able to get much done, but the presence of Jan Crittenden on these boards is about as direct a voice as you'll find to the factory.

I'm just not getting the bitterness. Congrats on 2 HVXs by the way.....
 
As I said #1 for listening to customers, heck the ceo / owner of red personally answers our questions and listens to our comments. Thats all I'm saying, no bitterness. Edit: Towards you, just the cost of the 64 gig cards

Jan is no doubt a nice asset to have here but she is far from being panasonics ceo. Edit: Although She Should Be!

Thanks for the congrats on the hvx's, I love em, just not the cost of the 64 gig cards or the other ones not dropping in price as I'm sure you heard by now.
 
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Pricing per gigabyte has dropped in the three years nearly since the intro.

Not a fast as anyone hopes.

But I don't ever remember saying "I wish the prices wouldn't drop so fast."

64 GB cards aren't for us.

I still maintain that it isn't the price of the 64 GB card that I don't like; it's that the 32 and 16s stayed the same price.

I have no clue why given the price of the raw components.
 
I am shopping around for a 16 and 32 card and prices over here in Europe vary ! by as much as 100€ ( thats 126 US $ @ the current rate)...VAt @ 20% is one killer but there seem to be possibilities. I wouldnt be surprised if prices drop in 2009.
 
ChipG said:
As I said #1 for listening to customers, heck the ceo / owner of red personally answers our questions and listens to our comments. Thats all I'm saying, no bitterness. Edit: Towards you, just the cost of the 64 gig cards

Jan is no doubt a nice asset to have here but she is far from being panasonics ceo. Edit: Although She Should Be!

Thanks for the congrats on the hvx's, I love em, just not the cost of the 64 gig cards or the other ones not dropping in price as I'm sure you heard by now.
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I hear you bout the cost.....what'dya mean it isn't dropping, is that what this is about? :Drogar-Smoke(DBG):

love my HVX too.
 
well, I still see no way that Panasonic would drop the price of the 16's, unless they plan on dropping the price of the 170 or including a 32GB card with it instead of the 16... I think by spring time everything will probably correct itself for a variety of reasons.

I am curious, as I am not a technician, is it possible to make the DVCPROHD codec more efficient in terms of recording size versus recording time - to fit more on a card basically? I have not heard that discussed but I am curious. Has the codec remained the same for all of these years and is it locked in stone size wise bascially?
 
CW-35 said:
well, I still see no way that Panasonic would drop the price of the 16's, unless they plan on dropping the price of the 170 or including a 32GB card with it instead of the 16... I think by spring time everything will probably correct itself for a variety of reasons.

I am curious, as I am not a technician, is it possible to make the DVCPROHD codec more efficient in terms of recording size versus recording time - to fit more on a card basically? I have not heard that discussed but I am curious. Has the codec remained the same for all of these years and is it locked in stone size wise bascially?
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Yep, the new avc-intra will probably be replacing dvcpro in the next year or two at least for some of the pro camera's and eventially I'd bet all of them.

No worries, dvcpro will be around forever and accepted forever.
 
We all get it; Panasonic doesn't want to cannibalize sales of the 64 and the profits they can reap from deep pocketed buyers by offering a price drop on the old cards.

I maintain that Panasonic is being panny wise / pound foolish to not offer a price break on the older P2 cards in order to preserve and build their independent user base. Granted we are not the lions share of their sales, but we contribute to the bottom line as independents and some of us WILL be making purchasing decisions for larger organizations at some point based on our experiences.

No matter how you slice it PCMCIA is old technology, obsolete in the computer industry other than in our tiny niche. Eventually PCMCIA will be phased out even if Panasonic chooses to cling to it for a long time.

Yes, it will continue to operate for years to come, P2 is a great technology that works very well... but there will not be laptop computers with PCMCIA slots. Which leaves us in the field with hyper-expensive Panasonic solutions or the additional intermediary risk of somewhat flaky Duel adapters. Panasonic will have the PCMCIA connectivity playing field all to themselves eventually, so they can continue to charge a King's ransom for their P2 connectivity devices. OK for the big players, not so OK for us.

I bought an HPX170 knowing this and I am glad i did, its a great camera and I have no regrets whatsoever. For me its a better choice than anything else currently on the market. I love it to pieces, it totally rocks. Those of us looking down the line a ways are seeing the writing on the wall- P2 is still probably the best option * at the moment * and therein lies the rub- if I were Panasonic, I'd encourage their very enthusiastic independent base to stay very enthusiastic by offering us something we have not had before- something very important which we can only have with reasonable media costs- the chance to leave the friggin' laptop at home.
 
Fact: The 128gb solid state Macbook Air is cheaper than a 64gb P2 card.

All this ridiculous pricing says to me is that Panasonic is giving DVXusers and other independents the middle finger. It makes no sense to target a camera price at independent filmmakers and then price the storage exclusively to pro users.
 
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So, the 64 is not for us!? That's like saying that recording in 1080p on our panasonic cameras is not for us! It was included in the build of the cameras but is just not viable given the current pricing of the P2 cards. I was so looking forward to seeing the price drop trend happen once again upon the release of the 64, but that didn't happen. I have been shooting almost entirely in 720 24pn... and i do alot of work out in the field, so i have to lug the laptop around. I was dreaming about the day when i could leave it home! I wish that Panasonic could have included the option of recording 1080 24pN on my camera, then alot of my concerns would be addressed. Anyways, i guess for now i will remain shooting 720pN and keep lugging the laptop around, until there is the next price drop i will probably not be purchasing any new P2 cards.
 
Steve Smull said:
Which leaves us in the field with hyper-expensive Panasonic solutions or the additional intermediary risk of somewhat flaky Duel adapters.
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Hiya:

Have you used one? I have had one for a year and it has been totally bulletproof and downloads much faster than the PCMCIA slot on my PB G4. I would estimate I have downloaded 2-3 thousand P2 cards worth of footage over the past year.

Can't understand why a lot of people make a big deal over using the Duel Adapter, I love it and it works great. Great product, cheap and reliable. If you have a laptop, the Duel is IT!

Dan
 
puredrifting said:
Hiya:

Have you used one? I have had one for a year and it has been totally bulletproof and downloads much faster than the PCMCIA slot on my PB G4. I would estimate I have downloaded 2-3 thousand P2 cards worth of footage over the past year.

Can't understand why a lot of people make a big deal over using the Duel Adapter, I love it and it works great. Great product, cheap and reliable. If you have a laptop, the Duel is IT!

Dan
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i gotta back this up. i've heard nothing but horror stories, but i've used mine constantly with zero problems. i baby the thing. still have the original packaging where it goes right after i use it, so maybe that has something to do with it. either way, this works for me.

i'm still pissed about the 16gig and 32 gig prices not dropping though. :angry:
 
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I'm anxious to hear what Jan has to say about the whole pricing thing. I'm sure Jan can't really change any of the pricing, but maybe she could let Panny know that many of its users are ready to jump ship.


P2 has been overpriced for years, and surely it wouldn't kill Panasonic to offer a price drop on the 16's at minimum.

Panny: Bite the bullet and give a cheaper price on your P2 cards. You've reaped the profits from several years worth of over-priced cards (spare me the not-much-profit-in-p2 speech), and now its time to give it up. If not, it will be your company that gives up lots of die-hard fans and customers.
 
well, if no one wants to pay that much for the 64's then don't buy them....if there really are as many people angry with this as this thread suggests then panny will have no choice but to lower the price.

supply and demand. If no ones buying, the prices will fall.
 
WORD! and please don't give us that HMC100 is out there today story, cause it means spending another 3 grand. Panasonic is just another tool but not the trade.
 
puredrifting said:
Hiya:
Have you used one? I have had one for a year and it has been totally bulletproof
Dan
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Dan,

First, thanks for your contributions and your review! As for the Duel, I have used it extensively and it does work. The Duel is great for what it is, a $100 solution which we desperately need. I'm extremely glad it exists!

The flaky part is that if someone else is using it, they have to be trained as to the procedural requirements of the thing to avoid a hard crash. It works only if used according to a less than intuitive operating procedure by an assistant. That makes it a weak link. My IT background has me trained that *any* intermediary device is a point of failure. It has a cable which can fail, contacts which can fail, it can be bent... or the failure will be pilot error... or one horrifying day it will be back in the hotel room when you need it :crybaby:

I'm looking forward to the day when we have adequate resources to leave not only the Duel but the entire laptop out of the equation- all the points for failure with a laptop could fill ten pages of text. And the simple fact of theft risk is pretty severe.

I really really REALLY like P2 and I'm willing to jump through hoops to use it, but man-o-man am I looking forward to not having to jump through the hoop of offloading in the middle of a job that i am doing solo! For me, THAT is the holy grail
 
Steve Smull said:
Dan,
or one horrifying day it will be back in the hotel room when you need it
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That's the one that scares me.

I shoot alone sometimes and yes, It can be a hassle to download cards. I think at some point, P2 will get a lot cheaper, but yes, it is a pro format costs pro prices. That's the price we pay at this point to have a $50,000 camera codec in a $5,000.0 camera.

BTW, I tried EX1 SD card hack and I was not impressed. I would NOT trust a client shoot to SD cards with the EX1. It dropped frames at any frame rate past 36fps and there is something not quite "official" or "supported" about it. Not worth the risk to me. For indies and hobbyists, great but for pros, we are still stuck with the SxS cards and the corresponding prices.

Dan
 
puredrifting said:
BTW, I tried EX1 SD card hack and I was not impressed. I would NOT trust a client shoot to SD cards with the EX1. It dropped frames at any frame rate past 36fps and there is something not quite "official" or "supported" about it. Not worth the risk to me. For indies and hobbyists, great but for pros, we are still stuck with the SxS cards and the corresponding prices.

Dan
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What card were you using? And the "hack" as you call it SPECIFICALLY states that overcranking is problematic. The Sandisk Ultra2 cards are fine up to about 40-42fps of overcranking. But if overcranking is what you want to do then yes, use SxS.

I don't even use my SxS card any more. And I shoot corporate video and live event.
 
How much is the SxS card and what is it's capacity?

FWIW, I guarantee the prices on all these will drop even further. Wait till the 64gig is out a while.
 
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