HVX200A and HPX170 "noise" testing results

Dino said:
Good news! I just spoke to Jan Crittendon and she says the moment she looked at my 170 next to her 170, she saw that mine was brighter. It was also noisier. So, she reset the camera and now it matches her camera . . .
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Good news, Jeff! :thumbsup:
 
Spdamf said:
Hey Kohli,

let us know if that fixed your problem.. so i can finally pull the trigger and buy my cam! ;) I've been waiting this all out to see if this all gets fixed.
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Want the honest answer? It just reset my camera. Same amount of noise.

But, here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1463839&postcount=46

I then compared it to the HVX200A, it was quieter. It had a slightly different texture but nothing adverse, nice in fact. Then I check resolution, it clearly had more resolution than the HVX200A. But in an effort to make it look like the HVX200A I added +2 to the Detail coring and then the cameras were very close. The 170 still had a little more resolution.
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Bolded and higlighted text is exactly what I'm seeing. A "slightly" different texture. To me? It's not quieter. The texture isn't slight to me. But, then again, neither was the edge fall-off on a Brevis pre-flipped system. Everyone called me crazy for saying the edges were as soft as a jellyfish, though. So just call me crazy on this one, too. Buy your camera, hope that coring the hell out of the image placates you and just move on with life and shoot. The features of the camera, while not as strong as the EX1, are thirty times better than the HVX200 and 200A. That's enough to make me keep it.

Is the HPX170 image as good as the 200A? No.
Is the HPX170 Image better than the 200? Yes.
Is the HPX170 a worthwhile upgrade? She's got a great body. Which is why I can't go back to a 200A. It took me five seconds to see that the 200A produces a better image. I think anyone who dropped them side by side in real life (BPress, CineD, CineV) would agree with me. Well, Barry and Jan wouldn't.

The verdict? Panasonic said it. There's a slight difference in processing and that slight difference drop kicked the image down a slight notch. We expected the same image, they never said outright that we would get it from the get go. We just thought it was going to be that way from pre-production models. Oh well, I got hosed.

Unless Panasonic drops an AVC-Intra cam with Extremely high resolution (ON par or better than the EX1), very low noise noise ratios and a sturdier body in the EX1/HPX170 price bracket my next camera will NOT be from Panasonic. No matter how the market dictates it. I'll shoot with this thing until crazy Jim Jannard and Friends release an actual camera instead of an asterisk sign.

On the upside: My Camera is officially paid off as of tonight.
 
hey koli, what is it about the sony ex1 that you didn't take that cam over the panasonic like your initial plan? I down loaded a short from both the sony ex1 and the hvx and found that the hvx accompanied with an adapter looked a whole lot more organic and filmlike vs the ex1. although the ex1 had an adapter on it i'm now convinced after seeing it on my television that its colors and motion cadence has alot to do with it looking more like video to me. could you elaborate on your findings since you've used both cams, and as to why you swayed away from this cam.
 
Kholi said:
Want the honest answer? It just reset my camera. Same amount of noise.

But, here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1463839&postcount=46

Bolded and higlighted text is exactly what I'm seeing. A "slightly" different texture. To me? It's not quieter. The texture isn't slight to me. But, then again, neither was the edge fall-off on a Brevis pre-flipped system. Everyone called me crazy for saying the edges were as soft as a jellyfish, though. So just call me crazy on this one, too. Buy your camera, hope that coring the hell out of the image placates you and just move on with life and shoot. The features of the camera, while not as strong as the EX1, are thirty times better than the HVX200 and 200A. That's enough to make me keep it.

Is the HPX170 image as good as the 200A? No.
Is the HPX170 Image better than the 200? Yes.
Is the HPX170 a worthwhile upgrade? She's got a great body. Which is why I can't go back to a 200A. It took me five seconds to see that the 200A produces a better image. I think anyone who dropped them side by side in real life (BPress, CineD, CineV) would agree with me. Well, Barry and Jan wouldn't.

The verdict? Panasonic said it. There's a slight difference in processing and that slight difference drop kicked the image down a slight notch. We expected the same image, they never said outright that we would get it from the get go. We just thought it was going to be that way from pre-production models. Oh well, I got hosed.

Unless Panasonic drops an AVC-Intra cam with Extremely high resolution (ON par or better than the EX1), very low noise noise ratios and a sturdier body in the EX1/HPX170 price bracket my next camera will NOT be from Panasonic. No matter how the market dictates it. I'll shoot with this thing until crazy Jim Jannard and Friends release an actual camera instead of an asterisk sign.

On the upside: My Camera is officially paid off as of tonight.
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Looks to me like this is a matter of preference & perception. I can understand Kohli's frustration. Jan likes one thing, Kohli likes another, and so it goes... I really do appreciate Jan's timely performance and Barry's efforts to help us with these matters.

RED announces their new camera this Thursday. Jannard tells us that we will be pleasantly shocked with the offering and they have matured as a company so they will bring their wares to market in a timely fashion. This might light a real fire under Panasonic to make some major leaps and bring us even better cameras, i.e., interchangable lens, big sensor, 16X9 hi-rez monitor on a gooseneck, AVC-Intra codec, etc... Panny you know must know by now what we want. Try it and see how you sweep the market place one more time.
 
What about people not interested in shooting with a shallow DOF? One must always consider that with these new DSLRs and the new RED Scarlet, focusing becomes increasingly difficult due to said increased shallow DOF over a 35mm adapter. So I guess this goes to say... let's wait and see. Wait and see.
 
reem12 said:
hey koli, what is it about the sony ex1 that you didn't take that cam over the panasonic like your initial plan? I down loaded a short from both the sony ex1 and the hvx and found that the hvx accompanied with an adapter looked a whole lot more organic and filmlike vs the ex1. although the ex1 had an adapter on it i'm now convinced after seeing it on my television that its colors and motion cadence has alot to do with it looking more like video to me. could you elaborate on your findings since you've used both cams, and as to why you swayed away from this cam.
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This was part of my initial reaction to the ex1 but as Ive seen more and more footage come from it it looks more like Red footage when settings are proper. That's why I started to look at it again.

The other thing us the amount of work I get with an hvx. Box was bound to do the same. But that's probably all going to change soon.
 
I might get some flak on that, but - aside from resetting the cam - are we maybe talking about a problem that comes from the quality bandwith in production?

From what I saw so far we are talking about an amount of noise, that the average Joe Shmock and his Brother would never even notice.

We see it cause we are trained to it, but is it more than the usual spread in production quality by making that sensors or is it really cranked up gain to make the HPX faster?

Frank
 
Koli, how about the 24p motion on the ex1 vs the hvx200. I definetly see a difference in cadence on my television. what do you you think?
 
reem12 said:
Koli, how about the 24p motion on the ex1 vs the hvx200. I definetly see a difference in cadence on my television. what do you you think?
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At 24p with a 180 degree shutter on both I can see a difference. It's very slight and the EX1's 24P looks more like RED's 24p.
 
Kholi said:
At 24p with a 180 degree shutter on both I can see a difference. It's very slight and the EX1's 24P looks more like RED's 24p.
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Same here, it could be something related to both cameras using a rolling shutter.
I might be wrong, but to my eyes, the HVX 24p cadence has a more filmic look.
Which is surprising considering the shutter on the RED and the EX-1 is closer to a film camera.
 
alexdias said:
Same here, it could be something related to both cameras using a rolling shutter.
I might be wrong, but to my eyes, the HVX 24p cadence has a more filmic look.
Which is surprising considering the shutter on the RED and the EX-1 is closer to a film camera.
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It's all just opinion, really. I personally prefer the entire RED look over everything else. Check out the KNOWING trailer with Nicolas Cage.

Yum.
 
By all means, there's a lot to like on the Red One Camera, and it's getting better by the day.

I look forward to the announcement of the new Scarlet later this week.
 
aalleexx said:
ex1 footie can intercut well with red footie yes?
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There are discussions on REDUSER about the footage inter cutting quite well at 720/1080. As long as the EX-1 had no lens adapter or at max a wide-angle I am pretty sure they would cut very well.
 
wow pretty good, I just found the old thread about red and ex1 playing nice together, I myself never thought I would say this but I am taking a second look at the ex1, the 170 is not what what I expected, the ex1 is still no1 ar far as noise and "cleanness" is your cup of tea, we'll see......



Kholi said:
There are discussions on REDUSER about the footage inter cutting quite well at 720/1080. As long as the EX-1 had no lens adapter or at max a wide-angle I am pretty sure they would cut very well.
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