HPX170 Lens Wobble Improved
- Thread starter Dino
- Start date
TwistedLincoln
Veteran
WOW! That was incredibly fast. I literally couldn't have driven home and done the test myself faster...
I think those shots pretty much prove what this is -- force exerted by the user on the focus ring causes one of two things: either the entire lens assembly moves (for those with ultra loose shock mounts) or simply puts enough vibration on the front of the camera to cause a shift (for users like me).
The fact that there is almost no shifting when the camera is on a set of books suggests that since the camera isn't locked down, the force from moving the ring is more properly transfered away from the lens...
So based on that evidence alone, I'm going to assume that the issue shouldn't get any worse over time.
TwistedLincoln
Veteran
Same here. I think that the wobbling then is caused by the user moving the focus ring, rather than something inside the lens assembly being screwed up. Therefore those who have a looser shock mount would have more pronounced wobbling during focusing.
Gary Senda
Well-known member
You can see the screws, the screws holes on the lens and the holes for the screws on camera body. There aren't other screws or bolts and for this reason this is a shock mount design.
If you look at the back of the lens seems there is a profile that simply fits and ther's a foam paf (F).
For me it is very clear hot it is mounted and how it works and it is very clear that this is a shock mount design, but something is wrong.
Gary
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Gary Senda
Well-known member
But we don't know if you move your lens more gently than spec-comm.
Gary Senda
Well-known member
Ops, I wanted to write 'foam pad' and 'how it is mounted'
While we're all grateful for the test footage Andrew, these comments are a little contradictory. If this whole thread is a race to see who comes up with a serious fix first, I'd say you're in the lead but haven't yet crossed the line.
If one has a lead pipe that has attachment points top and bottom mid length, and there's lateral free play, is it just me or should the free play get locked down at the ends, and not the middle (as I expect your 'remedy' works).
Does this make any sense or am I out of my depth?
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
Actually the foam pad that I was referring to in my other post is in the last picture listed that is the naked body. If you look all the way to the left in the middle you can see a rectangular block. That is the foam pad that I'm talking about. There is another one just like it on the other half of the clam shell. I think that this is used for grounding since it's made out of a metallic material. You are correct. The lens mounts on only two screws. We reinforce the lens back toward the sensors. The sensors are hard mounted to the lens assembly. So the movement that we saw is just from the entire lens assembly moving.
Andrew Hoffman
Andrew Hoffman
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
You are correct. Our remedy takes place back at the end of the sensors. It's made out of a flexible material so there is still some play left in the lens, but it's about the same as the HVX200A which everybody seems to be happy with.
We aren't in a race to get the "fix" first. We ran our remedy past Panasonic and they said that we have their blessing on it.
Andrew Hoffman
Gary Senda
Well-known member
You made an excellent work, Andrew. If I were in USA surely I'll send you my HPX171 tomorrow. The wobble is for the whole assembly movement, I have had this suspect because the image shifting was too regular, to 'elastic'.
This means also that there will be no dust issues and that making this mounting a little more rigid will fix definitevely the problem. Anyway the shock mount is a good idea, but they have exagerated a little
This means also that there will be no dust issues and that making this mounting a little more rigid will fix definitevely the problem. Anyway the shock mount is a good idea, but they have exagerated a little
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
That's because the lens assembly is screwed in with a screw in the top and bottom so the only way for to travel is left to right.
The "shock-mount" is a simple mechanism really. It's just a bit of room around the lens so that the lens can flex in case of an impact. Other components inside have all of the proper clearances and everything. That's really what it's all about. Sometimes it's the simple things that make the most sense. In the broadcast world such as the AJ-D810 cameras, (2/3" CCD) B4 mount lenses have some flex to them and if you have it locked down on a tripod and you purposely wiggle the lens around, you get a lot of lens wobble, its a precaution to not bust the front panel on the camera off every time a photog bumps the lens. Same case here. The material in which the lens assembly is made is what acts as the shock-mount which is better than replacing the lens every time we bump too hard.
I really hope I'm not rambling but actually helping here.
Andrew Hoffman
The "shock-mount" is a simple mechanism really. It's just a bit of room around the lens so that the lens can flex in case of an impact. Other components inside have all of the proper clearances and everything. That's really what it's all about. Sometimes it's the simple things that make the most sense. In the broadcast world such as the AJ-D810 cameras, (2/3" CCD) B4 mount lenses have some flex to them and if you have it locked down on a tripod and you purposely wiggle the lens around, you get a lot of lens wobble, its a precaution to not bust the front panel on the camera off every time a photog bumps the lens. Same case here. The material in which the lens assembly is made is what acts as the shock-mount which is better than replacing the lens every time we bump too hard.
I really hope I'm not rambling but actually helping here.
Andrew Hoffman
Gary Senda
Well-known member
Andrew, have you noticed that HMC-150 has the same issue too?
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
Hey Gary,
First of all, thank you so much for your contribution to the thread here.
Second, I haven't been able to spend very much time with the HMC150 at this point since I have been with the 170 so much. If there is as much play as the HPX170 we should be able to apply the same remedy. We will have to investigate and if there is a solution needed, then we will post something at that time.
Andrew Hoffman
I think that these guys on here claiming that the build quality is so terrible that it's fisher price are just angry over the weight.
Listen it's still almost all metal and Panasonic managed to get it lighter. We wanted a lighter camera so we got one.
But this lens issue...It's hard to know what to say when you have Panny Reps telling you it's a built in feature and users claiming this build feature is ruining their shots.
Panasonic will resolve this. they're an EXCELLENT company and have never let any of us down before.
At least Jan is on these boards talking with us personally; Sony would never do that.
Listen it's still almost all metal and Panasonic managed to get it lighter. We wanted a lighter camera so we got one.
But this lens issue...It's hard to know what to say when you have Panny Reps telling you it's a built in feature and users claiming this build feature is ruining their shots.
Panasonic will resolve this. they're an EXCELLENT company and have never let any of us down before.
At least Jan is on these boards talking with us personally; Sony would never do that.
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
I want to just say too that Jan rocks! She always goes above and beyond anybody else at any other manafacturer. And to be able to have this kind of access to someone in her position is an honer.
Thanks Jan!
Thanks Dan!
Andrew Hoffman
Gary Senda
Well-known member
Thank you to you Andrew. I apologize again with you and all the other users for my poor and broken english (anyway almost rare here in Italy). Yes, I can confirm you. My seller is the biggest italian seller and I've spent hours and hours in his shop to test both cameras: they are quite identical and, obviously, the lens moves exactly in the same way and the camera has exacly the same issue when you zoom at full telephoto.
I didn't know of this large blocks of foam (I can see the place where they sits in the body) and with this info all the mounting is now more clear.
The king is naked now!!!
Damn Panasonic, a little more neoprene and we would never opened this thread.
I hope Panasonic will use the same fix than you: simple, effective and preserving the shock mount designs.
Because simple solutions are always the best, expecially when they are made according the philosophy of the original design.
Thank you a lot again, from me and from my seller
Gary
I didn't know of this large blocks of foam (I can see the place where they sits in the body) and with this info all the mounting is now more clear.
The king is naked now!!!
Damn Panasonic, a little more neoprene and we would never opened this thread.
I hope Panasonic will use the same fix than you: simple, effective and preserving the shock mount designs.
Because simple solutions are always the best, expecially when they are made according the philosophy of the original design.
Thank you a lot again, from me and from my seller
Gary
Segarza
Well-known member
It's not the weight, I like the camera being lighter, at least for my applications. It's the wobbly lens, it's the flimsy joystick controller and the P2 slot door. These felt much more rugged on the HVX.