A-cam dII 'High Definition RAW Format Motion Picture Camera

Ever heard of an offline edit? ; )

I think we are going to see lots of fast workflow options with this, from proxies to real-time conversions into other codecs. Remember this is an already supported Raw still format by adobe- adapting it to motion should be a piece of cake.

As far as Hard drive space is concerned the cheapest Tera byte I have seen as of last week was $179.99usd at frys. Not that its the best drive you can get or anything but that price is only going to get lower and lower. Soon it will be so cheap that you can just go buy a few TB's for a project and think nothing of it.

I am ready for some uncompressed stills from the camera though...
 
Razorblade, Pocketknife, Machete. What do they all have in common?

Razorblade, Pocketknife, Machete. What do they all have in common?

Mattykins said:
The are different cameras for different purposes. It is like those comparing the DVX to the RED. There is no point.
Click to expand...

I agree with the overall point that Scarlet, Red One, and the A-Cam dII are all very different cameras with unique strengths and weaknesses.

For many shooters, Scarlet's REDCODE, CF solid-state, and fixed lens are going to be sufficient. However, those who demand an interchangeable lens mount system or integrated uncompressed acquisition are going to be more than willing to pay for what Ikonoskop is offering. Shooters who require a massive amount of supporting gear and accessories are probably going to be drawn further up the chain to Red One. These three cameras have less in common than we tend to project on them, IMHO.

I've written an article at PVC that outlines why I believe that Red, Scarlet, and the A-Cam dII can peacefully coexist with minimal overlap.

Matt Jeppsen
FreshDV
 
Cheesesailor77 said:
my understanding is the contrary. RED ONE (and presumably Scarlet) is basically a computer with a lens mount on the front, and it's more hardware intensive to handle the uncompressed RAW than the compressed. This is the reason why REDCODE RAW was such an impressive innovation. The compression is not only visually lossless, but it means it can run using cheaper hardware, which is why you can now buy a camera body for $17,500 whose closest competition is around $100k. So, considering the RED ONE doesn't have an option for Uncompressed RAW, I'll assume Scarlet won't either.
Click to expand...
Speaking in generalities I believe the trade-off between compressed and uncompressed, in terms of hardware, is that uncompressed is easier on the CPU but harder on the storage sub-system (higher bit rate means you need bigger, faster storage) where as compressed video is easier on the storage sub-system (lower bit rate) but harder on the CPU (requires more processing power to decode the video on the fly for playback). For example, given fast enough drives I could use uncompressed HD on a G4 PowerMac where as newer codecs like ProRes or REDCODE are optimized for Intel-based Macs and probably wouldn't even playback on a G4.

Remember back in the early days of DVD when you needed a hardware MPEG2 decoder if you wanted to playback a DVD on your computer? The great thing about where computer technology is now, and I think I remember Greame mentioning something like this a while ago, is that desktop computers have reached a point where they can handle complex compression schemes that retain image quality compared to uncompressed ('visually lossless' I think is the buzz word) so "compressed" isn't necessarily a four letter word anymore.


-A
 
http://www.ikonoskop.com/support/faq_dii/

FAQ: dII
Here are some of the most common questions that we get today.

Q. What about workflow with FCP/Avid etc?
A. We will not deliver any software, but we think that you will see a lot of software developers in a couple of weeks supporting DNG. IBC was a big deal for DNG as a new standard.

Q. Is the RAM removable?
A. We record to a memory cartridge that is on 80GB. Once full you can either change to another one, or off load the data to a computer.

Q. Will there be a external card reader, or do I always need to use the USB in the camera to transfer the files?
A. A memory cartridge reader is developed. It will be available at the same time as the camera and the memory cartridge. It has USB 2.0.

Q. Is the camera upgradable in the future?
A. We will in the future support Cinema DNG as one of the founders of that new standard. One of the reasons for on-board USB is also for the user to be able to update the firmware in the camera whenever needed.

Q. If I order today - when can I get my camera?
A. We will not announce any dates or numbers, but orders after IBC will most probably be shipped during February. So it is time to sign-up.

Q. Can I play recorded files through a monitor?
A. Yes, through your computer. Playback through the camera will be limited to viewfinder, external monitor and O-Led.

Q. Is It possible to get several mounts? And at what price?
A. You choose one mount for one camera. We support Leica, IMS, C and PL. Prices will be confirmed later during 2008.

Q. Will the camera work with zoom lenses?
A. Yes.

Q. How much will one 80GB Ikonoskop Memory Cartridge be?
A. No price for the memory card yet.

Q. What about Audio? Wich format, separate chanels? Mic/line?
A. Records 48kHz, stereo PCM.

Q, What is the estimated running time from the Sony battery?
A. Roughly 45 minutes. Maybe more, we are testing the power management at the moment.

Q. Where are the much promised footage? Any available video or still images?
A. We will post some footage in a couple of weeks on the website. Please subscribe to our RSS-feed for more information.

Q. How many minutes will it take to download footage from the card to the Computer?
A. Card reader will be released with production of the camera. USB 2.0 supports roughly 40MB/second. So 15 minutes of footage in 25 fps will take roughly the double to transfer to the computer. That is why we recommend at least 3 cards.

Q. Is there any tool on the camera to control the exposure?
A. There will be a on-camera histogram. That, and the viewfinder will help you to get the right exposure. And since it is RAW you will have more than enough information in each file to do post processing such as colour correction.

Q. What is the deposit versus the total price?
A. The deposit is €695 for the pre-order. Please e-mail your details to dii@ikonoskop.com with all your details and we will arrange with a money request through PayPal.

Q. What kind of output to an external monitor will you support?
A. We have a Lemo-monitor connector to our handheld monitor. Also, the HDMI can be used with most HD-monitors. Also AJA and Black Magic Design have small, portable converters for HDMI to SDI.
 
An attempt to see what a s16mm superspeed and tiny clamp-on mattebox might look like with the a-cam for size comparison (done in ms-paint):

1222044032.jpg


I am liking the handle though! ; )
 
Hi Matt-

I want PL but I cant decide how to get there; it will most likely come down to price.

The c-mount is almost like a universal mount as there are many mount adapters that go to c-mount, for example visualproducts makes a high quality PL to C-mount adapter for $500:
b479.jpg


There are also c-mount adapters for nikon, FD, minolta, leica, the list goes on... Keeping the door open to c-mount lenses is nice too as there are some lenses for c-mount that you cant get in any other mount (like the fujinon 1.8mm circular fisheye).

But the IMS is sounding pretty good, if the price is right, that would also let you get the P+S optical viewfinder if you wanted it.

Did you make the cut for the December batch?
 
Indeed, the ims sounds good but $$$
I'm looking at cobbling together a set of lenses right now and am looking into getting c mount adapters for some of the lenses.

Not sure what batch I am in. I put down the reservation the day after the announcement though, so... Hopefully.
 
Fujinon makes a set of "5 megapixel" c-mount lenses all faster than f1.6- I hear from si2k users that they are very sharp too and they only cost like $200-$400 a piece. throw some gears on the lenses with an 80mm step-up ring and it could be a nice lightweight and inexpensive set-up with new glass. PL lens sets are still extremely expensive.
cf5mega-lm.jpg
 
hmmm f 1.6
wonder what their t stop is. Any links to si-2k footage shot with it?
I like my glass a little vintage.
 
I made a mistake. So the 12.5mm,16mm,25mm, and 35mm are all f1.4 (I'm guessing they would have a photometric stop of 1.5-1.6) and the 50mm and 75mm are f1.8 (probably t2)

The bad news and the reason I wouldn't get a set of them is that they don't have a focus scale, so you would have to make your own. But if you wanted to get a light weight, sharp and cheap lens to use on a car mount or something like that , these would be perfect.

Here is a link to some footage I found with the fujinon lenses: (from the si2k):

http://vimeo.com/1406993

EDIT: sorry that is a really compressed and bad example ; )
 
combatentropy said:
Why do some of the posters here prefer uncompressed instead of visually lossless compressed?
Click to expand...

Because "visually lossless" is kind of a lie. REDCODE, while F*ing amazing, is still a compromise. That said, I'll TOTALLY take the compromise, but there have been a TON of analysis of the compression over at REDuser and the consensus (from some super smart, experienced people, is that indeed, if you really want to look for it, you can see some compression. Of course, you have to use a computer and look at individual color channels to find any of it (mostly blue channel) but it's there.

for the people who want the absolute BEST quality possible, any compressed medium won't be able to deliver it. Bust for most people, like me, I'll take the hit in quality if the only way to tell is going over it with a microscope in photoshop. The benefit for me personally is huge, so REDCODE it is. :)

another thing about REDCODE is that it gets updated every 2 months or so, and the REDCODE of today is almost unrecognizable to the builds of a year ago. It will be interesting to see how it stacks up in a year from now.
 
As a Red owner & user, let me tell you why exactly why I pre-ordered a few d2's:

It has little to do with compression scheme why i made a decision, but let me touch on that: I like Redcode's "loss-less" compression, mind you there are some compression artifacts at 4K if your looking for them, but you would never see them at 2K or 1080p- this would be true with any compression scheme as if you look for compression artifacts, you will find them. But I cant complain about redcode, I love working with it (of course my computer doesn't!).

The reason why ikonoskop nailed it for me has to do with their background in their super-simple super-16mm camera and being a film camera manufacturer in general. Their ergonomics and simplicity are amazing, by starting out as a miniature super-16mm film camera company, they knew exactly what a cinematographer would want for a handheld "digital super-16mm" camera: A manageable and comfortable body design, a run/stop button, variable frame rates, exposure control, and a viewfinder. Thats it.

Keeping in mind that storage space keeps getting cheaper and cheaper: The reason the D2's uncompressed Raw sequences (via 12-bit DNG) is so brilliant, is because you can bypass all kinds of camera problems with compression schemes, real-time in-camera digital signal processing, power consumption, heat dissipation, workflow compatibility, board costs, and the list goes on and on... Thats why you can have a camera like the a-cam d2, without fans and large 140wh batteries.

Think of it as a real-time uncompressed grain-less tele-cine of super 16mm film. You have a "real" totally untouched uncompressed RAW negative, you can process it any way you want, and being a completely open and free 12-bit Adobe DNG format, you can adapt it to any workflow you want (without re-compression or quantization complications) The workflow is totally free and open (and already supported to an extent)

Your DSP is now in your computer, Your compression scheme (any in the world you choose) is now in your computer.

But like I said, the compression-less design was only an added benefit to me. I love the d2's compact, yet smart design, The wide range of lenses and lens mounting options, the s16mm sensor, the fanless design, the fact that you can run it for an hour on an $89 small battery that fits in the palm of your hand- but most importantly, it was the ergonomics that made me want to pre-order it, this is the perfect size and weight camera for me for 80% of the work I do. It may not replace my Red, but it does replace my "a-cam" ; ) Pun intended.

This camera and this way of thinking, is going to sneak-up on the industry and catch-on fast. Just watch.
 
Hunter,

I totally agree with your appreciation of simple design. The temptation for cameramakers to clutter their products with buttons, nested menus, and other "features" slow down the operator in the field. And then the complex workflow slows the editor in the suite.

In a design I posted, I followed the same principle that Ikonoskop did: let the camera do the capturing, the computer the processing.

Except compression. If flash memory were as fast and cheap as hard drives right now, yes, uncompressed would be my cup of tea. But for my low budget I need cards that hold at least an hour and cost $10/hour.

Since you are a RED owner and have put in "a few" orders for the DII, um, you have a lot more money than me, so paying a two or three grand (my guess) for a card that holds just 15 minutes likely won't faze you as much.
 
As a Red owner too, it's the ergonomics that attract me. Red is too heavy. I love how light and portable this DII seems to be. And given that for dramatic shooting, I'd never get more than 90 minutes (more like 60 minutes) shot in a long day, then I can easily deal with the large files on a portable hard drive. Do my compression/conversion later in the computer. Only thing is, I guess for a long shoot, like 16 days, I'd need 8 big Lacie hard drives!!! If not 16 big Lacie hard drives so I keep all my original footage archived on a primary and a back-up drive in case of failure. That's a lot of hard drives. But then again, how many features am I going to make with the camera?! Two maybe? So having to invest in 8 to 16 hard drives ain't such a big deal for a feature.
 
To back-up footage, you could dump to a fast esata raid and then you can back-up on Lacie 1TB drives for $160, get 10 of them and your only at $1,600 and its only getting cheaper.
 
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