HMC150 questions answered...

[Attic6]

This thing looks so hot!!!
Am i correct in my understanding that you can only record 1080 30/25p in the full hp mode? Thought that if i wanted to do some cheesy timelapse of sunrise etc with no movement other than clouds it would work well to go to the 6mbps and just run out a full card then speed up later...
help! ???

Barry, you are a scholar and a gentleman, may your tribe increase!!!

 

[shrigg]

Barry, Is there _anything_ about the HMC150 that you feel could use improvement for the production version? Do you think the unit you have been shooting _is_ one of the first production models or was it disclaimered as "pre-production, all specifications subject to change?"

Thanks again for your excellent work, outstanding communication and amazing patience!!

-Shrigg

 

[Everts]

I'd like to see what others are getting from their conversion/editing system. Please post crops from your still images...

This is a capture from the 720/60p footage.

I can live with slow as long as the quality remains. A 2 hours worth of wedding clips might take 14 hours to convert, BUT I can let the computer do that over night while I sleep and do other things. (7 hours sleep and 7 hours other stuff...)


Bob Diaz

I tried to match yours

and I raise you
the Big Bird

14 hours of converting not for me.I'm glad my edit station is powerfull enough to get me faster than realtime.

 

[David Jimerson]

Ya but everyone keeps saying I need intel mac and FCP6.0.1 !!!!

"Eveyone keeps saying" a whole lot of things.

 

[Barry_Green]

Nikon lenses?

That was all off a single Zeiss ZF 50mm 1.4. I wish I could have done all sorts of other things and tests, but it gets ridiculously crazy trying to do all this by yourself! I drafted my wife into running the fog machine for the outside stuff. :thumbsup:

Was that shot at the sweet spot of the camera 720/24p?

No, That was 1080/24P. I really, really wish I would have taken the time to try both, but ... stuff fell thru the cracks. So this was all 1080.

Just wondering if you tried any Ultimate footage at 1080/24p during this shoot and whether the Ultimate helped to improve the image?

Well, the ultimate improves it because you wouldn't have that eye-in-focus, everything-else-soft look without the adapter, of course.

 

[Barry_Green]

Am i correct in my understanding that you can only record 1080 30/25p in the full hp mode?

In PH mode, yes. There is no progressive scan option in the HA, HG, or HE modes, only 1080/60i.

Thought that if i wanted to do some cheesy timelapse of sunrise etc with no movement other than clouds it would work well to go to the 6mbps and just run out a full card then speed up later...
help! ???

Sure, that'd work. For a landscape, where nothing's moving except maybe some clouds, even the 6mbps mode should look fantastic.

 

[David Jimerson]

Gee, I wanted to reinstall my system, now it seems I have to stick with it Before I list each and every player and codec I have, try this:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?Forum=4&MessageID=602979


I have this beta file on my system.

From the Sony Vegas thread:

I get nothin' but red broken frames.

 

[Barry_Green]

Barry, Is there _anything_ about the HMC150 that you feel could use improvement for the production version? Do you think the unit you have been shooting _is_ one of the first production models or was it disclaimered as "pre-production, all specifications subject to change?"

This unit is definitely not a production version. There are still potential improvements they could make, I guess, but I would think they have to be pretty close to locking the featureset now.

Sure there are things that I could put on a wish list. I wish it was as sharp as an EX1 (although I'd wager that in 720p mode, it is). I wish that it had some of the features the HVX and 170 have (like interval recording and variable frame rates). But considering it's $3500, vs. $5200 for the 200/170, I'm not complaining. And yeah it's not as sharp as the EX1 in 1080 mode, but it's as sharp and fast and noiseless as an EX1 in 720 mode, and it's $3,000 less, and its memory is about 1/20th the cost, so how can you complain about that?

I like that they didn't strip it down like the DVC80. On the DVC80, they took everything we loved about the DVX and -- removed it. No 24P, no cinegamma. Here, on the 150, they took almost everything from the 170 and -- kept it! It still has DRS, it still has cinegamma, it still has 24p, it still does 1080 and 720, you can still do overcranked 60p slow-mo, it has pre-record, it has all the same scene file settings and image adjustments, it even has the waveform and vectorscope and LCD flip features. I mean, I would have thought that if they were removing things, those would have been the first to go -- but they're still here. Granted they took away HD-SDI, but they added HDMI which, for a lower-end unit, is probably the more appropriate connector anyway. It's still a fully uncompressed digital 4:2:2 signal, like HD-SDI, but it works with televisions and the Intensity and other gear that's priced more appropriately for a camera of this price range. And with HDMI that means that you could use the XDR or NanoFlash, even though it starts to become questionable as to why you'd even want to, since you can record directly to dime-store SD cards as-is.

So, yes, there's of course room for improvement, but kept in context of the price... if it was $5800 I'd probably have some complaints. But at $3500 I think it's pretty sweet. It's really easy to use, the focus assist is superb -- I was using my BT-LH80 for the indoors stuff, but after a while I quit bothering because I was nailing the focus pretty perfectly on the LCD as-is (until, of course, the ladies missed their marks... sigh, the perils of using a 35mm adapter without a proper 1st AC!)

 

[psts]

It seems like the key to this camera is how to get the files to the NLE. The in camera quality definitely looks great. I'm not so crazy about what voltaic does to the footage, although the colors remain great, to my eye and monitor at least, I am seeing alot of macroblocking in the skies. It could be my monitor, but I don't see that on the same monitor with my hvx footage. I'm wondering if the camera to an intensity card via hdmi might be the best idea right now for those with an intel mac.

 

[Cranky]

it's not as sharp as the EX1 in 1080 mode, but it's as sharp and fast and noiseless as an EX1 in 720 mode, and it's $3,000 less, and its memory is about 1/20th the cost, so how can you complain about that?

So in your opinion is it pretty much a 720p camera with ability to record in 1080p/1080i if one wants to?

the focus assist is superb -- I was using my BT-LH80 for the indoors stuff, but after a while I quit bothering because I was nailing the focus pretty perfectly on the LCD as-is

Does it enlarge a center portion only instead of full screen, and keeps it enlarged even when tape is rolling... I mean, when recording is in process? This is the same approach Panasonic uses on its low-end camcorders and it is so much better than Sony's/Canon's focus assist that turns off when you push Record button. Props to Panasonic for that.

P.S. Were you able to load files in Vegas? I tried again yesterday, 60p crash Vegas, but 24p works fine. Would like to see some 30p footage, both 720 and 1080.

 

[Cranky]

I get nothin' but red broken frames.

Well, I don't know then. This beta driver seems to work for some others besides me. Maybe you need to reinstall? Starting from format c: /s Really, don't know how to help.

 

[Ed Kishel]

14 hours using voltaic? I must be missing something....

I have converted Barry's clips with TMPGEnc to MPEG2 with all quality settings maxed out and they only take about 5 minutes per clip. The file size does increase though (the 163 MB of 00095.mts went up to 200 MB as an MPEG2).

And to my eye the only difference I saw was that the MPEG2's colors were a tad more saturated. I put my file and the AVCD original next to each other on the same monitor and they both looked sharp as a tack.

Have I picked the wrong format to go to and what should I be looking for when reviewing converted AVCHD footage? What’s the best gauge of a good conversion?

(Thanks again for everyone’s hard work)

 

[dayvid]

Of course. I don't hold out a lot of hope for Sony Vegas ever going out of their way to be pro-active in supporting competitors' products. I would think that Vegas is likely to be the last editor to have proper AVC-HD support across the board.

Until then, I'd recommend looking at CineForm if you want to use Vegas.

EDIUS has a conversion utility that supports all HMC150 modes right now, including 720/24, 720/30, and 720/60, plus all the 1080 PH modes.

I have been doing some research on this camera, and have been a DVX/Vegas User for a long time, I've enjoyed the DVX book and DVD from Barry, and find him to be quite a great resource for all things panasonic. I don't know if the fact that I'm a first time poster will get me in trouble since my post is somewhat controversial, but I thought it better to post here since the comment was made here. Barry, you make it sound like Vegas is being stubborn here and unwiling to work with panasonic, and that got my dander up, so I looked into it. I know this is a post from another forum ( I am assuming that's not a problem ), but after doing some research in things like panasonic and Vegas and codec support etc... I found a long thread on the Cow ( here ) that had a statement by someone named Dave Hill ( who after checking into it appears to be someone fairly high up in the Vegas Pro company ).

This is an excerpt from his post:

"To be crystal clear about competitive concerns, there is NO objection on our part to have Panasonic products work in Vegas or any of other SCS product, and I don't consider Panasonic compatibility of any type "unresolveable", at least from our perspective. True, anything that requires development and support funding of course is a business decision, that's well understood. In such cases we hope the maker of the device/format will be willing to pitch in on development/testing/support to ensure that their products work with ours. This request shouldn't been seen as abnormal or in any way bad I don't think, especially in the current landscape of constant new formats that we now all find ourselves in. I'd like to point out within Sony the company we do this all the time- Sony camera groups routinely do custom support implementation with other-branded NLEs and apps in the interest of ensuring broad/timely possible support of their new formats. I think that is a wise decision on the part of our camera/format groups and should continue, and I think every device and format maker should try to do that and follow that model- really, it can only sell more product and make customers happy, which is all we should care about.

I'm not going to put my email here for spam reasons but if somebody from Panasonic calls our front desk they'll put you through to my direct line and maybe we can figure something out. No objections on this end to moving forward at any level.

Regardless of how it works out between the "big companies", one more Huzzah! for our valued partners, please check them out if you haven't already (www.DVfilm.com and www.Cineform.com). "


​

I'm not sure why you don't hold out much hope of Sony Vegas going out of their way, when it looks like there's an offer right there to help. I respect your input on many things, but I'm just a little confused here, please don't let me hijack your thread, but this seems like something you may not be aware of. I don't know if you might want to adjust your first post to represent this or if I'll get the boot for posting something controversial and contradicting, but I think from what I can tell you're better than to smear or spread rumors when it's not true. I'd be interested in knowing why it is that Vegas won't be supporting this camera if you do or don't know?

Thank you for taking the time and reading my unbelievably long first post, as they say, long time listener, first time caller.

Thanks

 

[kurtmo]

I get nothin' but red broken frames.

What config and what versions are you running? The 24p files are working great in Vegas with the interim mts decoder mentioned earlier. I'm jazzed that Vegas is close to a solution today.

 

[BobDiaz]

I tried to match yours

(Photo deleted)

and I raise you
the Big Bird

(Photo deleted)

(Photo deleted)

14 hours of converting not for me.I'm glad my edit station is powerfull enough to get me faster than realtime.

Keep in mind that the 14 hour number I gave is a hypothetical number assuming I had 2 hours of 720/24p footage to run through VoltaicHD. Likely there are other FASTER ways, I just haven't found them yet...

What editing (or conversion) software are you using to get these images?


Bob Diaz

 

[kurtmo]

14 hours of converting not for me.I'm glad my edit station is powerfull enough to get me faster than realtime.

The DVCPRO HD transcoder is fast on my vista PC too; minutes not hours.

 

[kurtmo]

I am seeing alot of macroblocking in the skies.

Are you viewing raw MTS files? What app are you viewing with. I used the Panasonic viewer and got blocky footage. When I imported into vegas, it all went away.

 

[David Jimerson]

Well, I don't know then. This beta driver seems to work for some others besides me. Maybe you need to reinstall? Starting from format c: /s Really, don't know how to help.

Wasn't really asking for help. Just reporting what I'm seeing.

 

[Everts]

What editing (or conversion) software are you using to get these images?


Bob Diaz

PC : Premiere CS3.2 (update) .I used the panasonic avchd converter.
SYSinfo :
Dual core 2.68GHZ (3%oc) with 2 GB DDR2 and a FSB @ 1333 MHZ.
2 e-sata 500Gig drives 7200rpm.

6 seconds of 720 /24p material took about 2,5 seconds to convert and 60p was just above realtime.So 5 secs would take about 6 to 7seconds to convert to dvcproHD.
Edit :If you bought your pc in dec 2007 you will propably only need to upgrade your processor and memory to convert the mts files alot faster.

I brought the mts files to a fellow editor who has power dvd v 7.0 and the images looked alot cleaner on his 22'' monitor.We had some problems @ first but we just uninstalled all the other codecs he had installed and reinstalled power dvd. Afterwards Windows mediaplayer was capable of playing the files.To make things easier I renamed the files to *.*mpg. I believe I have Powerdvd version 7, I think it came bundled with the DVD burner.This might just be my lucky day.

 

[drdimento]

Barry -

If you're still taking requests for the next round of testing... and if you can't find an orchestra... could you take a steady shot of some scene with motion and detail similar to a full-orchestra shot? Say, a bunch of people protesting, or waiting in line? A slow parade? A bunch of seagulls or pigeons standing on the ground? With the camera locked down? At 6mbps?

Something with similar characteristics to an orchestra shot framed like this

- with only small local movement of the performaing musicians (that is, nothing like a car a sweeping through the scene, etc).


Basically, I want to experiment with what this looks like when windowing to SD...


Thanks!
-Barry

ullanta, what was that orchestra scene shot with?