mcsmooth;1374049 . . . I am kind of surprised they don't at least include a small card in the box said:I agree totally. We recently bought a different model and it came with both tape and card and came with one each AND a stills storage card.
I've heard some say that the idea is to keep the price as low as possible; well, companies better start thinking more clearly about margins in a highly competitive market because for more money most people expect to get more like tape drives, memory recording units, adapters, cables, cards, tapes, manuals, software, etc. Moreover, if an item is going to be MRSP "expensive" then the manufacterer better be prepared to have a sizeable discount because anything over $4K in the handheld pro line better have a lot of bells and whistles and not fixed lenses, single recording source, etc.
It's a leading edge "grab the customer with bells and whistles that work" kind of market . . especially with the economic trend in place as it is)
Just the Doc's opionion.
Press Release: HMC150, "the new DVX"
- Thread starter Barry_Green
- Start date
BobDiaz
The Professor
Originally Posted by BobDiaz
Users become obsessed with resolution and forget that color saturation, dynamic range, and image sensor noise are also part of what makes a good image.
It would take a lot of searching to find it, but back in this forum, around January ---> March 2006, in the HVX-200 section, test results for the HVX-200 were compared to other cameras. A number of users, I can't recall who, were using the resolution as if it was the only parameter that mattered to decide "the best" camera.
It's something that I see pop up every now and then in other forums, but after reading so many messages, I can't recall exactly where. Sorry I can't be more exact, but it's just one of those things I've noticed over the years....
Bob Diaz
I am totally in agreement with what Bob is saying about the whole resolution thing, in fact I used too and it was my reason for selecting cameras to begin with. Then I watched others kick my pants off with better images than we were pumping out and realized it wasn't the resolution after all and it was this whole I-frame vs long GOP, it was can the camera make a good image? What we found was, that just like cars, a 400 Chevy ought to out perform a 327 but a 327 can drive circles around it's power giant and for a whole lot less fuel while at it. The same, when I put our powerhouse I-frame up aginst a handheld 1/3 long GOP camera from Best Buy, and had 8 regular HD viewers look at the outdoors, indoors with good and poor light, over all it was a wash, they couldn't tell the difference. What? How is that possible. Spec-wise the one had it all, I mean everything, but hands down all people could say was that the I-framer was maybe a little better.
Then, Panny started this whole AVCHD thing with what appears to be a continual flow in that direction which says, "hmmmm, maybe this whole GOP isn't so bad after all?" So, we gave up on specs, resolution, chroma, knee, etc., and said "don't fool me with the facts man, just show me what looks good and I'll take it." And we did.
Then, Panny started this whole AVCHD thing with what appears to be a continual flow in that direction which says, "hmmmm, maybe this whole GOP isn't so bad after all?" So, we gave up on specs, resolution, chroma, knee, etc., and said "don't fool me with the facts man, just show me what looks good and I'll take it." And we did.
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If the HMC150 looks as good as a 200a I'm going to be all over it, forget specs. The only one paying for the cards will be clients who will get their footage at the end of the day. Huge savings, no archiving issues, no dumping to hardrives during shooting, no digital assistants. I think Panasonic is underestimating who is going to buy this camera. It won't be just low budget producers and students after this camera.
Amen
Duke M.
Veteran
"Can someone explain the large price difference in cards and why the Panasonic cards are much more expensive?"
Class 6 merely means it will record at the rate of at least 6 mbps. The camera records at 21-24 mbps at PH quality. You'll have to get the more expensive cards, whether or not they are Panny cards.
Duke
Class 6 merely means it will record at the rate of at least 6 mbps. The camera records at 21-24 mbps at PH quality. You'll have to get the more expensive cards, whether or not they are Panny cards.
Duke
mcsmooth
Well-known member
^ That has nothing to do with the Panasonic cards... you can get class 6 cards for as cheap as I mentioned above. Also... we've learned you only need class 4 to take advantage of PH. I've noticed that cards are typically either 2 or 6 anyway, so it can't hurt to have the quicker speed for faster ingestion.
On a side note, the class 4 card spec pretty much proves that there will not be write verification with this device, but again, I don't know of any device that does this with SD cards. But as with ANY file based system, backup often
On a side note, the class 4 card spec pretty much proves that there will not be write verification with this device, but again, I don't know of any device that does this with SD cards. But as with ANY file based system, backup often
Barry_Green
Moderator
It's my understanding that the Panasonic cards are supposed to do write verification as well.
You can use generic class 4 cards to record the highest-quality modes on the 150. You can get a 4GB card (40+ minutes of best-quality recording) for $14.50 already.
You can use generic class 4 cards to record the highest-quality modes on the 150. You can get a 4GB card (40+ minutes of best-quality recording) for $14.50 already.
Jared Meyer
Veteran
Was there ever confirmation that the focus/iris switch means the ring on the lens can control either? I can't think what else that would be for but I didn't see it mentioned in any of the literature.
ecking
Veteran
You've got it wrong class 6 is 6MBs, which is a massive difference. Generic cards from class 4 and up will work no problem.
BobDiaz
The Professor
...
On a side note, the class 4 card spec pretty much proves that there will not be write verification with this device, but again, I don't know of any device that does this with SD cards. But as with ANY file based system, backup often
I know that the 24Mbps = 3 MBps (Mega Bytes Per Second), but the specification sheets come from the Government sales representative, it's not a given that the information is 100% correct.
It's hard to be sure at this point:
(a) The information is correct and Panasonic decided that using a lower class card is more important than write verification. At NAB, Panasonic was very clear that it would require a class 6 card.
(b) This was just a typo and the camera does require class 6 cards. This may or may not mean that write verification is there, but it would be a justification for requiring class 6 cards.
Bob Diaz
Barry_Green
Moderator
Class 4 works.
Yes that's what it does. When you put it in "iris", then the focus is locked, which means it's a great little bonus for 35mm adapter users.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Class 4 is all you need. You can buy incredibly cheap cards. And if you don't need the best-quality modes, you can use the cheapie Class 2 cards.
Has anyone heard if any other manufacturers are going to put out AVCHD cameras since many are in the consortium? Any ideas why others aren't really talking about it while Panasonic is talking a lot about it? Is it that they aren't working on AVCHD to see how it works out for Panasonic and then determine what to do OR like my friend in CA indicated to me recently that Canon (not JVC) and Sony both have a AVCHD camera with all kinds of bells and whistles BUT aren't going to release it until Panny does and then ride on Panny's coat tail with something better for the same or less money?
Those who are in the know please provide some indication if you know. This guy who is in the electronics industry said that Canon (not JVC) and Sony are "hush" about new releases that are in the works. I've checked both their sites and there isn't any indication of ANY new format cameras but more HDV cameras?
Also, reread the more indepth detail and he said there are a slew of consumer grade AVCHD cameras and according to what their electronics firm is saying, AVCHD wasn't designed to be a pro codec but just a competitive HDV codec with the same kind of looooooong GOP type.
Any thoughts on this?
Those who are in the know please provide some indication if you know. This guy who is in the electronics industry said that Canon (not JVC) and Sony are "hush" about new releases that are in the works. I've checked both their sites and there isn't any indication of ANY new format cameras but more HDV cameras?
Also, reread the more indepth detail and he said there are a slew of consumer grade AVCHD cameras and according to what their electronics firm is saying, AVCHD wasn't designed to be a pro codec but just a competitive HDV codec with the same kind of looooooong GOP type.
Any thoughts on this?
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john deaver
Well-known member
After seeing what Panasonics AVCHD looks like on a large TV I think the line between Pro and consumer codecs/cameras is getting very very narrow.
Umm, wouldn't that be 8Gb for 40+ minutes in PH mode? 4Gb only gives around 20 min according to the Record Time charts I've seen.
Do I get a gold star or banned from the forum for correcting Barry? :huh:
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. A friend of ours has a Panasonic DC-SX5 or something like that, maybe a SL5 ?? (would have to look it up) don't know really but here's the rub from the thing . . when we were going through this whole HVX200/200A vs a Sony 1/3" cmos palmcorder and our friends Panasonic AVCHD and then outputting to DVD and BRD, we were hard pressed to discern the differences and for some of the clips (especially outdoor average light to even some of the lower lit scens) it was a wash as to which was better and we had equal amount of votes on each and the real issue was that for the price of the Panny palmcorder and the Sony comos HDV, we could have had at least 3 of 'em or even maybe 4 (for the price we paid for the 200) and other than bigger and "looking: more professional, we were hard pressed to say, "hmmmm, maybe we outta get a bunch of these things. I've packed my HVX to basket ball games and shot basketball and made a dvd for fam and they've used their sony 3 chip 1/3" cmos and i thought we mixed material stock somehow other than mine was P2
(so John, I agree with you and with all the pros talking about how HOT this form of HD codec and can't wait to get their hands on it, I'm guessing that we might be just around the corner from Consumer/ProSumer/Pro butting heads for price/performance. After all, other than acquisition inventory inside the camera that makes the image data, it's still AVCHD dropping down inside that piece of plastic, which is the same codec as that 1,000 camera at Best Buy . . right?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Don't know where you've been, but Canon and Sony already have many AVC-HD models out there now. There might be others from the smaller companies, I don't know, but Sony is on AVC-HD bigtime. But only Panasonic is producing something other than a consumer-style palmcorder yet.
Yep. AVCHD is a "super HDV". If anyone finds HDV acceptable, they should be flabbergasted by how good "good" AVCHD is.