Press Release: HMC150, "the new DVX"
- Thread starter Barry_Green
- Start date
Thanks for the information Barry, really appreciate it. Don't know that it required all the emphasis though. I don't think of my two friends as ridiculous or stupid when they are just telling me about something that was both told to them and they read online. Don't mean to be disrespectful but a mere "no" would have been sufficient as well
)Also, good to hear that it's the same drive system in the HVX as we thought those were quite robust.
Barry_Green
Moderator
I can't imagine what you were doing. I've shot many times with 100 and 100B and HVX, and (other than 60i) the HVX blows the 100 away. Seriously much sharper in 16:9 mode. The only prayer the 100 has to compete with the 200 (in SD mode) is in 4:3 60i. In any other scenario the 200 owns the 100, and the 170/150 are astonishingly better than any version of the 100 when shooting 16:9.
In 4:3, they're closer. In 60i, the 100 is better than the 200. In sensitivity the 100 is better. But under adequate light conditions, in 24P or 30P, the 200 pwnz the 100. And the 200A/170 and downconverted 150 are better than the 200, so there will be major pwnage.
That sounds more like it.
Disagree 100%. The HVX is no grainier than the DVX, and the 200A/170 are dramatically cleaner than the DVX.
Barry_Green
Moderator
With all due respect, I disagree 100%. I have shot and seen the HMC150's 720p and it BLOWS THE JVC OUT OF THE WATER. Beats the hell out of it, and has fun doing it. Haven't compared it against the EX1 in 720p mode, but I have no doubt it'll be as good.
A major fault? To have AC-3 audio? That you haven't even heard yet? Let's give it a shot before ruling it out. I consider MPEG-2 long-GOP a major fault, but the EX1 is proving that with enough bitrate it can do just fine. AC-3 for audio is way more advanced than MPEG-2 for video, so let's see how it performs before declaring it a fault of any kind, much less a "major" fault.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Yes.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Probably would have, but rumors have a way of taking on a life of their own, and I wanted to emphatically reject that. I've been in -40 in the Arctic with an HVX200 and I can tell you from firsthand experience that the claim that Panasonics have problems with the cold is either extraordinarily misinformed, or the result of deliberate misinformation. There's a reason that Original Films, when being commissioned by DiscoveryHD to do a series on the Iditarod, specified that the only camera they would take was the HVX200.I don't think of my two friends as ridiculous or stupid when they are just telling me about something that was both told to them and they read online. Don't mean to be disrespectful but a mere "no" would have been sufficient as well
Sorry to use such harsh wordage, and apologies to your friends. But as one of the few people in the world with some decent hands-on time with the 150, I'm not going to idly stand by and let groundless claims go unchallenged when I have firsthand experience that says the opposite is true! :thumbsup:
These shows were in 4:3 and a very soft lit with reflected Mole-Richardson 800W open face and while the DVX100B produced a really nice image when we placed the HVX200 into the system without telling the client mind you, they instantly on the first airing called us and asked what was wrong with one of the cameras and the one they were speaking of was the 200. So, we worked with it over a 4 week period and tried to improve upon the image and could not and after lengithly discussions with Jan from Panasonic on the subject, she said the 200A fixed that weakness and thus we ordered the 200A and while it definately looked better, with all the tweaking we could do we still had to brighten it in post and still had a visible difference wherein the client said we had to do something to fix it. Thus we either would have to add another DVX or seek a different plan when we just rethought our whole process flow and operation and totally changed the profile of our business including media workflow, cameras, and editing hardware/software.
We have surfaced with 100% HD and multiple NLE's and multiple OS platforms both of which have added dimension to our business and opportunities. But in conclusion, while the HVX200A was closer and the HVX200 not at all close in 4:3 SD mode, both did not mix well with our DVX100B cameras which have absolutely best SD image on the market in our opinion (and wished we could keep them - and still hanging on to two of them and not wanting to let go) and had us at risk with multiple clients even in slightly better lit conditions. Moreover, in 16:9 the HVX was way superior to the DVX100B regardless of sqeeze or letter box (in fact especially better than the DVX letterbox) but then it should be right? It's almost twice the money, twice the imaging system, and has an HD lens right?
So, while I'm not a fan of disagreeing, especially with a learned collegue, I have to say on this one, our 50+ shows a year with this client revealed that the 200 and the 100 don't mix well. What did mix quite well (astonishingly) was the DVC60, which by the way was quite a powerful little workhorse for it's money. I mean where can you get a camera so cheap with such a powerful zoom and usefulness that over 100 stations nationwide said, "we'll take it, nice picture," when we produced the first 5 shows and all were made with three of those DVC60's. Wow, what a thought.
That HDMI I/O at the same time could be a major plus on it's own and could allow folks in smaller studio apps to change the way they work.
Barry_Green
Moderator
HDMI is output only.
Barry_Green
Moderator
I have matched them to where they are absolutely indistinguishable. The only differences are in sensitivity (DVX being more sensitive) and in 60i performance. In 4:3 24P or 60i I can make them look to where nobody on the globe can tell the difference.
. . . I can make them look to where nobody on the globe can tell the difference.
Wished we had you close to Pittsburgh then, cuz we shure couldn't and our two local TV stations couldn't either. They said get better cameras, but then they have the budget we don't. They said get the 3000's but we didn't have that much $$$ in all of our broadcast cameras
)Certainly if we had many many hours with which to play with 'em we perhaps could have found better and/or more closer fits but honestly in all the work we did, we could not find a workable solution, let alone, as I say our two TV stations who use Panasonic cameras couldn't find an appropriate fix either. They wanted us to add more light but with this client with two people on the show having bright light eye problems that isn't going to happen so we just sought alternatives and found a solution that works. Therein was our interest in how the 150 and if it was the same imager as the 200 or ??? Also, if it was an extrapolated 1080x1920 or a smaller imager transposed upward to the larger image which is where I believe the difference in image really resided.
BTW, Barry above someone had asked if the camera had HDMI both in and out at the same time and you had indicated simply "Yes" it had then when I responded how that was a plus for our consideration you indicated that it did only one at a time. Can you please advise which it is? The 150 only does one way or the other by selection? Or it is only in or out? Or it is both?
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Barry_Green
Moderator
The question I responded to was "can you record and also output to HDMI at the same time?" The answer is: yes you can record the footage to the SD card, and simultaneously the HDMI signal will be outputting.
There is no HDMI input on this or any camera (at least, I don't know of any cameras with HDMI input). But you could simultaneously record to the internal SD card, and also to a blackmagic intensity card off the HDMI output. You could also get an inexpensive HDMI->HD-SDI converter and then use the Convergent XDR to record to as well.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Cards are indeed cheap enough that you could do that. However, be aware that you'll have to work with the producer to identify their post workflow before committing to that; we have to see which NLEs will have full support at the time you're talking about doing this. I'm sure it won't be long before all editors have full support, but coming right out of the gate it may not be that way.
As soon as the editors are on board, then yes: shoot, hand over SD card, yes that'd be a legitimate workflow.
Barry_Green
Moderator
No. But I'll work one up in short order.
ullanta
Veteran
Well, it all depends on whether you'll be post-processing the audio much. Much like with compressed video, compressed audio can't stand up to as much processing as uncompressed... I don't know about other folks, but for my work uncompressed audio is a necessity.
Not to say the HMC-150 with a second system is out of the question - I never use the camera's preamps anyway - but the HMC-150 would be a no-brainer, perfect camera for many of my uses with compressed audio, and not such a clear choice without... so, panny magic folks, an uncompressed audio option would get you at least one sale!
Can someone explain the large price difference in cards and why the Panasonic cards are much more expensive?
Panasonic 16 GB Secure Speed: 20 MB/Sec - With: Class 6 Performance $186.00
Delkin 16 GB Secure Digital (SD) Card $90.00
Speed: 150x
PQI 16GB SDHC Memory Card $53.00
Class 6 More
16GB Secure Digital High Capacity SDHC Economic Card $79.00
Panasonic 16 GB Secure Speed: 20 MB/Sec - With: Class 6 Performance $186.00
Delkin 16 GB Secure Digital (SD) Card $90.00
Speed: 150x
PQI 16GB SDHC Memory Card $53.00
Class 6 More
16GB Secure Digital High Capacity SDHC Economic Card $79.00
mcsmooth
Well-known member
^ Just a common business practice that accessories are high priced. They are in the business to make and sell cameras, its a bonus if someone wants to buy accessories for the convenience and assurance it is compatible and backed by the company. Kind of like when you buy a bargain laptop from bestbuy and they try to sell you a $100 crappy bag, $30 cables, etc. Just buy your cards ahead of time and you are good to go. Deals on 16GB class 6 cards are showing up as low as $35 now, and prices will only drop as more 32GB cards are released. I am kind of surprised they don't at least include a small card in the box, but at these prices, who cares.