64GB P2 Card Release Date?

Shooter said:
To put P2 card costs in perspective... do the math on shooting 35mm film and processing it and telecining it then digitising it etc....
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I think an even better comparison would be to put it up against the cost of shooting DVCProHD tape.

http://www.taperesources.com/DPH126-P.html

63 minutes of DVCProHD footage for $79.
If we assume 2,000 for a 64GB card (which I think might be a bit on the high end):
Fill up your P2 card with 1080P footage 25 times and everytime after that you're shooting for free.
Shoot 720/24PN then you've paid for it after the 9th time you've used it.


If you shoot on a regular basis, P2 prices are already cheap as far as I'm concerned.
And they are only getting cheaper.

EDITED TO ADD:
And keep in mind, I didn't even mention the added deck costs for shooting on HD tape.
 
Or another way of looking at it:

A 500 GB SATA bare drive runs under $80 USD. That means you can back up 8x64 GBs for about $80.00.
 
A significant cost of the documentary I shot on the SDX900 was spent on DVCPro tapes. We would get 33 minutes per tape, and I would always have to have a backpack full of these large tapes. I love P2 and DTE because I just don't have to worry about the additional cost of purchasing tapes, which was about $4000 over the course of our project. I just need a laptop, or with my 32gb cards and FS-100, can be out there with just that much media for a day shoot.
 
Panic.. so true. I shot a commercial on a varicam not too long ago and it was 800 bucks in tape stock. That's one 16 gig cards worth for a two day shoot.
 
You've come a long way, baby.

720p24PN was the savior because of its stingy P2 usage. 1080 made some shoots impractical.

Now, 1080 is "just another format".
 
63 minutes of DVCProHD footage for $79. If we assume 2 said:
EDITED TO ADD:
And keep in mind, I didn't even mention the added deck costs for shooting on HD tape.[/I]
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Don't get me wrong, I'm completely on your side on this one. All that you said above makes sense IF your the one who's been paying for your clients tape stock. think about it this way.... If your not charging extra for the use of your P2 card then your actually loosing. That's because in tape world, the client WOULD BE (at least SHOULD BE) paying for the the tape and tape deck in the first place! Yet on the other hand, you lay down $2,000 on the 64g P2 card and IF YOU DON'T charge extra for it with your rental then your the one who's loosing. What your actually doing is taking money out of your pocket and putting it in back to the client. But before any gaskets gets blown, keep in mind that this may not necessary be a bad thing. The way I see this dilemma (and this is just my POV), is that HAVING the P2 card just makes your more "valuable" and is an incentive of bringing in more clientele.
 
I rent my clients the P2 cards, sell them at least one HDD and then charge to archive a copy per GB if they want an offsite backup.

e
 
That is a valid point about getting reimbursed for tape, IF you aren't getting a good day rate. If I am, then it's included because I mostly had to or would have DV to pay for. Now that USED to be expensive, or on the other hand, if I had to rent a varicam, then that would have been expensive. So for most people, they would be either consuming the tape stock cost, or its so darn cheap it's not worth worrying about it.
 
Angelcyk said:
That's because in tape world, the client WOULD BE (at least SHOULD BE) paying for the the tape and tape deck in the first place!
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That's definately a solid point. I always use and have the client pay for NEW tape with a normal markup as any retail item. This often amounted to a signifcant amount.

We started charging a "Media Transfer" fee. Basically this covered the time we spend transferring media to the Edit Bay and the BU drive.
So far we have had a few questions about the "MT" charges, but when they realize they aren't paying for tape charges they don't mind.

It's a new era.
 
Angelcyk said:
If your not charging extra for the use of your P2 card then your actually loosing.
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Good point - honestly though it hadn't occurred to me that anyone wouldn't charge for the use of their P2 cards.

I generally charge as a percentage of equipment value (much the way you'd figure out any other rental fee). The price of P2 cards (or Firestore drive) is lumped in with the cost of the camera package. So the client never sees a seperate 'P2 card fee' (just like they never see an itemized 'battery' fee or 'filter' fee).

On top of that the client generally pays for a drive to back the footage onto if they want to archive it.
 
wait a moment... So we should have our rates i.e. say $250 just to operate the cam,
plus $150 for a Harddrive and a $100 fee to transfer each gig of information?

Because I shoot everything in HD since you never know which piece of footage will be worth 100's if not 1000's.

I feel right now because I have been using the VX2100 a lot of my work has been low cost so that my quality and abilities can be seen, and the fair price can then be met. Don't know if that is wrong, but guys correct me if so.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Good point - honestly though it hadn't occurred to me that anyone wouldn't charge for the use of their P2 cards.

I generally charge as a percentage of equipment value (much the way you'd figure out any other rental fee). The price of P2 cards (or Firestore drive) is lumped in with the cost of the camera package. So the client never sees a seperate 'P2 card fee' (just like they never see an itemized 'battery' fee or 'filter' fee).

On top of that the client generally pays for a drive to back the footage onto if they want to archive it.
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Those are valid points Luis... I have noticed when clients get a full break down they either spend time asking why this, and is he drive mine at the end of the project.

I really feel I have to sit down and really count the cost, and get a little back from each project, and not just compensation.

$100 Hard drive
$250 just to shoot (nothing fancy or no DP work)
$75 per p2 card
$50 to use EW100's
$350 to edit
and miscellaneous expenses...

hmmm $1000 per event even if it's a simple Birthday party, but then again someone on the forum once said if you are that good you should not be doing weddings/let alone birthday parties
(maybe that is something to consider) I should just outsource the work to some guys who can charge less while at the same time pay me to either edit or for the use of some of my equipment (excluding my HVX)
 
You need to have flexibility in the way you write your proposals or bids and billing. Up front, you might package it down for less savvy clients. A wedding, party, special event coordinator might like a one-price package. Later, you might choose to provide a full breakdown of what went went into that within the invoice. You might not. Some, for competitive or other reasons, never let their line-item pricing out there.

We use real post-production facilities for our shows. These places break everything out - digital transfers (to D/I), edit, logging, duplication, authoring, raw stock, colorist services and on and on. You can compartmentalize this for your agency or end-client if you prefer to. I break it out and mark it all up by ~20% per line item. Usually I up-front the charges based on estimated time for each service.

This gets you a couple of things. First, if your agency/client goes beyond the alotted time or materials for any line item, they can easily see what impact they're having on their own actuals. This removes any chance of confusion or distrust from your fiscal relationship. It costs what it costs. If they sit around tweaking the edit for an additional three hours, they know exactly what is going to happen to them. They're going to pay.

I pay the bill and keep the client from having subs and hassles and insurance and setting terms and negotiating rates. That is the justification for where that ~20% comes from. Actually, for the hoops a post-production coordinator jumps through, twenty points is getting off easy. I don't, except on longer-form projects charge for my post-prod coordination as a paid position. I should, even if it is in 1/4 hour increments.

It's bad business for you to be surprised by the charges you incur to accomplish any given job. You have to count the details if you want to persist in this industry. Everyone else does.

e
 
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