HVX200 vs EX-1 showdown

Are you using the Mac version? I am not seeing what you're seeing. I did find a work folder in Tools/Options, but the folder was empty when I looked.

If you get this sorted out, please do let us know.
 
The browser software will automatically be setup to import proxies when you first load it. You have to turn it off in the pref's.

Im not sure how it is with SxS but when you mount an XDCam Disc the browser software will usually auto detect it and then from there start loading thumbnails, 'metadata' (i use the term loosely) and then proxies..

So with a Disc, you can click on hte thumbnail, and then it will load up in the viewer window and allow you to scrub/play back a proxy file. However i've yet to work with SxS so dont know what it does.
 
Joe, this is about how it works on SxS too. I was hoping that on export from the software, it would give us proxies to work with in the NLE. Guess I was hoping for too much. :)
 
Ok, so did a test with the EX1 tonight:

Set up stuffed Grinch in front of black foamcore background. Light with Lowel DP light on spot from ~3ft away.

Set light meter to ISO 400 1/48 shutter, 24fps. Meter reads: 1270FC / F11.6 (near F16)
.. I set the camera at 1080/24fps shutter 1/48, F13, 0db gain, 3200k. Zebra set at 95% and got a perfect exposure.

With the same lighting, I changed the camera to 1080/24fps, 1/48, gamma at STD3 (basically the default camera setup)
.. The camera indicated proper exposure (zebras off) at F16. This is somewhat unscientific because the camera will not indicate a smaller stop than that. It holds F16 as the image gets darker and the iris finally closes. As the iris swings from F13 to F16, most of the white fringe is still in zebra. It takes about about the same distance on the iris from F11 to F16, to get the exposure correct once F16 shows. Im going to guess I'm between 25 and 32. If that's true, the camera is rating out near ISO 1200.

Ok, time for an interlaced test.

I Changed the lighting for this. Same gear but I swung the light away so we'd just get the lighting from the fringe. Meter is now reading:
~17FC/184 Lux With an indicated ISO of 800, it says I should be at F2.0.
Zebras on the camera disappeared at F4.0. My light meter indicates the closest ISO at 3200.

If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't have believed it. However, I did record it, and put it on Vimeo.

http://www.vimeo.com/1419305
 
I don't know about you guys but I really do like the reliability and the work flow of the P2 cards and the firestore. But lets all remember, its not the camera, its the person behind it... right?
 
I hate when people here get all sensitive and touchy about comparison tests. We need them. They're great jump off points for figuring out your next purchase. I really would love to see the 200a go head to head with the EX1 in a test that really covers as much as possible.

Like probably most people on this site who aren't having multiple stations from a server - a proxy is not important for post. At 35, 50 or 100mb, I haven't run into to bandwidth issues. When I do have a project that gets posted at the bigger post houses, they eat that bandwidth for lunch.

What really interest me the most with these two cameras is how to the pictures compare under the following criterion:

Color Rendition
Lattitude
Resolution
Vertical / Horizontal Motion rendition
Noise
Gain verse Noise

Concerning workflow

Price of cards
Price / minute
Download speeds
Stability of Format
Number of streams
Compatibility with Avid, FCP, Premier, Vegas
On location storage device (ie. P2 Store, Firestore, etc)

Concerning use:

Layout
Hand held ergonomics
Manual / Servo lens
Start and stop of Zoom
Video Out (ie D4 Component, SDI, Etc)
Scene Files

As an HVX owner, my biggest gripe is I think the image looks somewhat soft on a big screen TV, it's noisy in hi con situations, and on the field storage is lacking. There should be an affordable alternative to the P2 store by now that holds at least 500 gigs. Also Panasonic has been sleeping on an affordable P2 to Express Card reader. You know a simple single or dual card reader you can throw in a backpack - not the 6 bay monstrosity for 2 grand. They haven't put much though into the ENG, doc, or on the field P2 situation. After two years you think they would've gotten it together.

The Dual adaptor has issues and doesn't work with Tiger. Many, like me hate Leopard. Damn cats.

I love my P2 Store but 60 gigs is laughable. They should design one you should be able to walk with it while it downloads. I hate using P2 for docs. When I shoot broadcast doc stuff, most the clients choose to still use tape (HDX 900, Varicam or F900). Nobody likes having to have a "data" boy on location with a laptop.

REcently I directed and shot a two camera show in which I had a choice between 2/3" P2 cameras or HDX 900 / tape. I went with tape because I'd rather have that second assistant on set laying down marks or other things that effect the image than making him our data monkey. Or the other alternative was to hire a 3rd as our data wrangler. Another body, another mouth to feed, another hassle. And I can't tell you how many times I've been stressed by the data dude saying "Hey, Tim we're missing a few clips....". Never happens with tape. Now tape wasn't any cheaper as we did pay 800 to have them transferred to drive so the price difference probably was about 200 more with tape. But the back up and P2 stress was gone.

If panasonic had that portable / visually verifiable non computer based offloader that could store 500 gigs (we shot about 300 plus) I wouldn't be bitching now. I swear I feel Panasonic dreams some things up on a drafting table or computer screen and not from the minds and experience of working cameramen.

I'm in the market for a new camera and on the fence between the EX3 or holding out for the HDX 170. Will be using the EX1 extensively this week with the Ultimate for a PSA for regional broadcast and will report from the trenches. Should be interesting. My 1st EX1 and Ultimate Gig.
 
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Agreed with most of the above, tests must include the work flow and environmental influences as well as end result of the work flow in deliverable formats for comparison.
I would like to see noise comparisons between the 2 on various gain levels under identical lighting.

Yes Panasonic have produced some ground breaking equipment and have given us tools no other company has I am very grateful to them for that. But that doesn't mean they need stop there. A simple 1 or 2 slot PCMCIA to Express or to USB adaptor would be brilliant for data wranglers and solo shooters. No doubt this is a huge lacking in the P2 arsenal and would have saved me and many of my employers money and inconvenience.

Point I will debate on is the price and data wrangling.
Where as the 900 records to tape it is more expensive to rent and certainly to purchase than a 200 and as you mentioned to get it to a workable format costs even more. Only difference is the lack of the down load and back up process, lets look at that for a second.
It is pretty obvious that solid state is the future of our on location work flows whether up in the Andes or on the beaches of the dead sea. Better get used to having a CA/Data wrangler, I know I am... this is not just another little task to be done on set it is a momentous responsibility = loader!!
A data wrangler should have a triple verification process built into a system to ensure that he or she are getting all the correct data in the correct format to the correct places. Great segue into; down load and back up process = as many redundancies as your heart desires = security of the footage = very very good. Tape = one copy of the footage if something happens = very very bad.

I think more effort should be made to shape the work flow around solid state and its developments, use data wranglers or develop a system your self.
 
Data wrangling is coming close to being a nonissue, guys. 64GB cards are coming out in a couple of months. With two of those you could shoot for five and a half hours nonstop. It's a rare production that's going to shoot five and a half hours per camera each day.

I can't remember the last time I had to do the "P2 shuffle". An HPX500 with four 16GB cards got us through most of the Sound DVD with no in-field offloading. Heck, those four 16GB cards just add up to ONE 64GB card. When we shoot our next disc, there won't be any "p2 shuffle" at all.

Any in-field data wrangling is a temporary inconvenience that is rapidly becoming a nonissue. If you need to offload in the field, a $379 Windows laptop does the job flawlessly and extremely cheaply. Connect it via gigabit ethernet to your Mac Pro desktop and you'll have a cheap reader that's far, far faster than a USB adapter.
 
Tim Naylor said:
The Dual adaptor has issues and doesn't work with Tiger. Many, like me hate Leopard. Damn cats.
Click to expand...

just a note, tiger itself is not the issue. i use tiger with the duel adapter, and it works just fine. so, you can't say across the board tiger and the dual adapter don't work together. i'm just sayin.
 
Yes a cheap windows laptop is a great solution for cheap of loading on set.

Data wrangling is an integral part of a solid state shoot should be considered and promoted as such. Granted I do a lot of free lance work as a data wrangler but I am not saying this just to defend the data wrangling position on set. As durable as P2 cards are I still back them up on set periodically taking full advantage of solid state digital format with the security of a redundancy. Even if the footage would be magically recorded to Fort Knox I would still back up during the shoot won't keep al my eggs in one basket no matter how large the card or drive. The P2 shuffle is not a hassle at all when a simple system and a consistent back up and label method is used.
 
Barry_Green said:
If you need to offload in the field, a $379 Windows laptop does the job flawlessly and extremely cheaply. Connect it via gigabit ethernet to your Mac Pro desktop and you'll have a cheap reader that's far, far faster than a USB adapter.
Click to expand...

I don't really see that as a good option because I'm looking for more portability in the field, and a second laptop would just be more difficult. But maybe I don't understand the solution. Can you view the clips on the PC laptop to make sure the data transferred properly? I haven't ever had any data corrupt on transfer, but I do like to open my NLE to confirm that the data is in tact. Maybe I've just got a little OCD.

I too would love to see a comparison for purchasing considerations. I'm buying in September, though. So I'd love to see the HPX170 vs the EX1. I don't really care who's had the chance to update what model in what amount of time. A comparison gives me thoughts on my purchase decision. So I hope that's in someone's cards!
 
Barry_Green said:
If you need to offload in the field, a $379 Windows laptop does the job flawlessly and extremely cheaply. Connect it via gigabit ethernet to your Mac Pro desktop and you'll have a cheap reader that's far, far faster than a USB adapter.
Click to expand...


Which $379 laptop are you referring to I'd love a link would pick one up asap!
 
bill totolo said:
I'd actually like to see a comparison between the HPX500 and the EX-3.
Click to expand...

That would be interesting. Although, I understand the EX-1 and EX-3 are exactly the same camera except for interchangeable lenses, and ergonomics issues, I would love to see the comparison to see how the larger CCD's stack up against the CMOS for image quality. However, although I would be able to budget $14,000 for a camera, I probably would not get the HPX500 because of my constant need for portability, and my inability to keep two high-priced cameras. Shame.

Lawrence
 
lawrenceingram said:
I don't really see that as a good option because I'm looking for more portability in the field, and a second laptop would just be more difficult. But maybe I don't understand the solution. Can you view the clips on the PC laptop to make sure the data transferred properly?
Click to expand...
Of course. You can run P2 Viewer and offload, verify, play, annotate, edit, and otherwise do absolutely anything you need to, to the clips.
 
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