HVX200 vs EX-1 showdown

S

sylvanimate

Member
I recently did a test of the EX-1 and the HVX200. I posted a side by side comparison of the old HVX200 ( not the 200A) check it out on vimeo I wish I had good news but I believe the HVX has met its match. The lens quality on the EX-1 surpasses the HVX; less chromatic aberration and a 2-3 stop low light advantage puts Sony ahead of the game.

The HVX does have many design advantages to the EX-1 The HVX is rugged and made to put up with abuse. The controls are accessible the balance is wonderful and the rock solid true HD compression format that P2 provides the HVX shines.

Many of the EX-1 controls are placed in unusual places and no uniformity of purpose. I placed the EX-1 on sticks and half the controls were not accessible. The EX-1 one has truly one fatal flaw its on board LCD monitors. While the picture quality surpasses the HVX and many other LCD’s. It is designed badly and has no “play” once opened up. This lack of “play” means if it is accidentally bumped even slightly the monitor will break. In true production environments it would only take one clumsy operator or AC and the monitor would be permanently damaged.

In the test I wish I had used an HVX200A that would have been fairer to the Panasonic camp. Before ever performing the test I was firmly in line with P2 and believed they continued to make a superior product.

On the post side of the comparison Sony arguably beats out the HVX. It does however do it using the Long GOP XD Cam compression technique, which has the potential for unstable footage. That being said I have yet to hear from any post house that I have worked with that has any problems with the XDcam codec.

Our post department has told me the EX records a low- rez SD-proxy footage that can be linked with and associated to the hi-rez HD footage. This allows SD streaming in post environments in which multiple users may be accessing the on-line footage concurrently. P2 workflow has always been a true challenge in the field. Those challenges have also been in the post world requiring immense bandwidth to allow real time streaming in edit bays.

My tests show there is no clear winner but Sony stepped up their game enough that the production company I work for (an all Panasonic house) is seriously considering transitioning to an XD-cam workflow with the EX-1 as our possible replacement for our army DVX100b’s and HVX’s.
 
Interesting test but as you mentioned some what unfair considering the 200A is not used. The outdoor focus test was not slated so couldn't pick which cam each shot came from.
Also have you tried grading any of the tests footage to that matter have you tried cc or compositing to both to see how well each holds out when pushed to the limits of the format?
That would be a good comparison instead of just the untouched footage straight out of the cameras. Most footage will be altered compressed and re-compressed in post and that will separated men from boys.
Thanks for posting that any way.
 
I truly hope that one day soon these comparison tests will be over. They seem to create nothing but ill will and confusion. There seems to be so much revisionist history and protectionism that a fair comparison never happens.

Really, it's a shame.
 
Coldpizza said:
Interesting test but as you mentioned some what unfair considering the 200A is not used. The outdoor focus test was not slated so couldn't pick which cam each shot came from.
Click to expand...

The EX1 is the first revision of the Sony. Why is it unfair to compare it to the first revision of the HVX? Maybe in a year or two Sony will revise the EX1 to improve some of it's shortcomings, much as Panasonic has done.

Coldpizza said:
Also have you tried grading any of the tests footage to that matter have you tried cc or compositing to both to see how well each holds out when pushed to the limits of the format?
Click to expand...

What's wrong with taking a look at the footage coming out of the camera? It's done with every comparison test I've ever seen.

Coldpizza said:
That would be a good comparison instead of just the untouched footage straight out of the cameras. Most footage will be altered compressed and re-compressed in post and that will separated men from boys.
Click to expand...

And suppose he used the HD-SDI out? Would that seperate the men from the boys? How would that footage have held up compared to what came off the HVX?

Come on...
 
Thanks coldpizza for your comments
I agree it is far from a perfect test; I'll explain in more detail. The beginning of the video is both the HVX and EX. The outdoor test was only EX-1 footage. I did not have the HVX on hand on that day....sorry it was out on a show. The last part of the test was used to illustrate its raw capability in tough lighting situations and then some subtle retouching with color temp changes, low light extremes.
 
Even having posted this comparison, I still believe in the strength of the HVX. I just want Panasonic to wake up and take notice so they do not fall out of the game. :)
As an avid lover of the HVX I do not relish condemning a wonderful piece of machinery nor do I enjoy having to suggest an about face about Authentic’s (the production company I work for) partnership with Panasonic. Yet with Panasonic providing less and less support for the Mac and Sony expanding its partnerships. I find myself in a dilemma that I felt I needed to share with the on-line community.
 
Definitly a touchy subject, I think we just need to end it at the fact that these are both two amazing cameras, that are equally capable of producing amazing results in the right hands, and bad results in the wrong hands.
 
Comparisons are indeed very useful - especially when they include video footage. As long as the conversation doesn't degenerate, they should be encouraged, not discouraged!
 
Thank you Ullanta and Perroneford for your thoughts. I considered not posting this because of many of the points that everyone brought up.
My main concern is that Panasonic has not been able to adopt a tape-less workflow that is usable for our needs in the field and post within our price point.

More and more networks are requiring their master deliverables be HD. Currently we up convert all our SD field footage shot with the DVX’s to HD deliverables. Authentic has been looking for a strategy to get rid of our SD cameras and adopt a tape-less solution. I could do that if Panasonic adopted low-rez proxies across their whole product line; instead of just the highest end HPX2000-and 3000's.This would enable me to recommend P2 workflow to my EP. As of today Sony has managed to stuff a low rez proxy that my post dept can work with; alas Panasonic has not.
 
They are working with the footage now. ....on their off hours when not on-lining shows. I will post with their conclusions in the next few days.
 
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Sorry I must post a correction to this post. In my research I'm getting conflicting information in regards to if the EX-1 records a proxy? When my post dept is done playing with the footage they should have answers for me.
 
Well, I've recorded some footage with my EX1, and I've never seen a proxy. I was wondering if you had discovered something I missed.
 
Some aspects of the Panasonic work flow have deterred many production companies from adopting it to date. True Sony has usually had a more straight forward work flow and seam to be a bit more in touch with common work flows than Panasonic. But when asked I have been advising producers and company owners in my area to use Panasonic as the work flow is good, reliable and constantly improving in the field and in post. Good example is the P2 card road map Panasonic are well on schedule with capacity and hopefully not far of a 132GB card.
Would make perfect sense for them to include proxies with the recorded files, but who knows...

I have worked with and conducted lectures to many DPs in regards to the HVX and P2 abilities always pointing out the importance of end delivery when choosing a format to work with. As a result we have conducted many tests to see which formats would be preferable under different conditions baring in mind data rate, color sampling and LUT adaptability as well as resolution. These tests included cc, compositing and other commonly used process before compressing them to industry standard deliverable formats. While the EX1 was very impressive the HVX (not A) a 2 year old camera was as impressive. There were hardly if any noticeable differences between the end results of the EX1 and the HVX. As you said I guess it boils down to how well the systems are used more than anything else.

Personally I am pleased that Sony have stepped up to the mark with the quality of their mid ranged cameras. This will put pressure on Panasonic to continue improving their cameras and we end up reaping the benefits of better cameras and formats being developed.
 
Yes Coldpizza!!! I agree we will reap the rewards when all of us can afford the bandwidth needed to edit, copy and archive the footage these amazing cameras offer. Sony's solution of getting around the issue with a proxy is a start. If the article I mention in the above reply is correct than it creates it in the XDcam transfer browser.
 
I think the last shoot the hvx was much better, why is that?

It seems to me like the hxv200 just requires more lightning, and it's alot older than the ex1 so .. don't see how this can be fact much at all, but ohwell, it's ALWAYS fun with comparision footage, so thanks!
 
The last shot ( my neighbor in the pool) was a color temperature test of just the EX-1. I shot the footage in the wrong color temperature and then in FCP adjusted the footage to show them ( post dept) how easy it is to adjust and correct.
 
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Perroneford if you check in the preferences the XDcam browser saves the proxy in your " cache" directory. I'm not sure how you access it but if we develop a work flow I'll make sure to post our findings on the DVX forum.
 
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