grey market - do companies intentionally produce inferior units?

The gray market exists because people take advantage of currency exchange rates, local market conditions, and the lack of warranty service. If someone can import a unit from Canada at less cost than they could buy it from Panasonic USA, they will --even if it means that the end customer loses out on a factory warranty and on any rebates or incentives.

When the US dollar was strong, there was a big demand for gray market imports because other countries' products were proportionally cheaper. Now that the dollar is weak, there is much less incentive to import gray market product into the US.
 
My direct experience is different. I had ordered an HVX 200 from Foto Connection in Brooklyn, the camera shell was PLASTIC not MAGNESIUM ALLOY. Furthermore, the label said Made in Thailand. When I got a US model from B&H, it was metal and is covered by the US warranty, while the intl model was not. There is definitely a difference between gray market and US authorized models.

I would speculate that the manufacturing process is too costly to sell such a high end version destined for the US to another market that cannot afford such, as indicated by those countries price points of such cameras.
 
Goldenzah said:
My direct experience is different. I had ordered an HVX 200 from Foto Connection in Brooklyn, the camera shell was PLASTIC not MAGNESIUM ALLOY. Furthermore, the label said Made in Thailand. When I got a US model from B&H, it was metal and is covered by the US warranty, while the intl model was not. There is definitely a difference between gray market and US authorized models.

I would speculate that the manufacturing process is too costly to sell such a high end version destined for the US to another market that cannot afford such, as indicated by those countries price points of such cameras.
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Jan:

Can you address this issue?

Dan
 
Ted Spencer said:
I think the OP may be referring to this YouTube clip:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=gEvLhJr84Ks

It's a talking head piece about grey market cameras from Brooklyn. The speaker bought an HVX200 from one of them for a very low price, and claims it was different, with cheap plastic parts instead of the magnesium alloy chassis of a proper HVX. He goes on to state that certain international models are commonly made this way. So he sent it back and got a full-price US model from B&H, which is fine.

But as to his claims re: the plastic chassis (which was related, according to him, to a clicking, noisy zoom problem), I've never heard of such a thing, and find it dubious.

As others have said, it's my understanding that there's only one basic camera being made by Panasonic. Then they're spec'd with region-appropriate language menus, voltages, legal considerations and so on, and a warranty which only applies to the native region.

But alternate, cheaper basic parts like the chassis or the zoom? I find that hard to believe, unless there are some Chinese fakes floating about that have never been unearthed before. That aspect of the gentleman's account seems highly suspect to me, and consequently rather puzzling with regard to its motivation.
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Ted,

Thank you for your opinion of my situation. My motivation was very simple and as simple as those who post on this board asking "what's the difference"; I wanted to get the best price on the HVX. When I became part of Foto Con's bait and switch technique, (say it's a HVX but don't tell him about its inferior quality) I had no recourse but to warn others about their misrepresentations and Panasonic's (Sony and Canon do it too) reluctance to inhibit these vendors ("its a sale, why should we care?" attitude).

Upon discovery of this issue on the day of receipt, I physically took the gray market camera to Panasonic's professional broadcast repair facility in Universal City, CA. The lead technician did a)validate that there was a ticking noise(it's the zoom servo waiting to engage- you have to be in a quiet room to hear it, but it does show up on tape), b) that I could just use the XLRs and c) they could repair it at out of pocket expenses starting at $260/per labor hour (to compare-Sony's repair in Orange County, CA charge $220 a labor hour).
Upon further questioning of the technicians, I discovered that the ticking problem was a known issue at the time of manufacture. Now why would that be on a camera out of the box, straight from the factory and no recall? Statistically, it didn't matter to Panasonic. Those who had properly bought an authorized camera could get the repair done for free, if they even discovered it.

I now have the US authorized model and I am glad I got now. As consumers, we need to demand transparency in these differences. We can also make others aware of these issues. For the companies, a simple serial number validation on their websites would be a start. What about honoring warranties worldwide and not having this issue in the first place?

But if you dont take my word for it, please do your own research and purchase the camera I returned to Foto Connection. I'm sure you'll get a good deal and you can talk from first hand experience (not second hand experience) on the quality you have received.
 
My HVX (bought from B and H in NY) is gray-market -- because it's used in Russia. So you can buy gray-market cameras anywhere -- it doesn't matter if they're an authorized dealer or not.

The local Panasonic dealer (where I bought my DVX) has no problems repairing it (for a fee of course), and it's identical to the Asian PAL model (except for being NTSC).
 
This interesting.

I would appreciate if someone from Panasonic could address the metal versus plastic camera shell concern.
 
yeah, david. that was my logic for posting this thread in the first place.

my first reaction after seeing that youtube movie was that it was a chinese knockoff.
 
Goldenzah said:
Ted,

Thank you for your opinion of my situation. My motivation was very simple and as simple as those who post on this board asking "what's the difference"; I wanted to get the best price on the HVX. When I became part of Foto Con's bait and switch technique, (say it's a HVX but don't tell him about its inferior quality) I had no recourse but to warn others about their misrepresentations and Panasonic's (Sony and Canon do it too) reluctance to inhibit these vendors ("its a sale, why should we care?" attitude).

Upon discovery of this issue on the day of receipt, I physically took the gray market camera to Panasonic's professional broadcast repair facility in Universal City, CA. The lead technician did a)validate that there was a ticking noise(it's the zoom servo waiting to engage- you have to be in a quiet room to hear it, but it does show up on tape), b) that I could just use the XLRs and c) they could repair it at out of pocket expenses starting at $260/per labor hour (to compare-Sony's repair in Orange County, CA charge $220 a labor hour).
Upon further questioning of the technicians, I discovered that the ticking problem was a known issue at the time of manufacture. Now why would that be on a camera out of the box, straight from the factory and no recall? Statistically, it didn't matter to Panasonic. Those who had properly bought an authorized camera could get the repair done for free, if they even discovered it.

I now have the US authorized model and I am glad I got now. As consumers, we need to demand transparency in these differences. We can also make others aware of these issues. For the companies, a simple serial number validation on their websites would be a start. What about honoring warranties worldwide and not having this issue in the first place?

But if you dont take my word for it, please do your own research and purchase the camera I returned to Foto Connection. I'm sure you'll get a good deal and you can talk from first hand experience (not second hand experience) on the quality you have received.
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Thanks for commenting on this, and sorry if I sounded like I was accusing you of misrepresenting anything. I wasn't, but since yours was the only claim I'd ever heard of regarding the plastic parts, and I've read tons and tons of material here and elsewhere regarding the HVX in general and grey-maket deals in particular, I was, I hope understandably, skeptical.

I'm inclined to believe you're telling the truth (why wouldn't you be, really), and since people like Panasonic's Jan Crittenden post here often, I'm sure we'll get the whole story soon.

Thanks for taking the time to report all of this to us.
 
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Hi,

Panasonic does not do two different versions of the camera, one plastic and one die-cast magnesium. I have checked in with the factory and we do not, I repeat do not have a factory in Thailand. Tha is very weird. YOu wouldn't happen to have a picture of the Serial Number plate would you?

The issue with gray cameras is that the warranty is in the country of origin, and as such I try to put together a package within the US that causes the customers to seek out US cameras, like the free P2 card and Free Barry Green book.

Oh and the reluctance thing is not reluctance, it is not an illegal thing to do. Gray Market was made legal by the US Government, I couldn't stop them if I wanted to.

Hope this helps,

Jan
 
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Since it's sounding like the "plastic" 200 is shaping up to be a knockoff,
Goldenzah can you tell us if you put the camera through it's paces? Did it record P2 files, variable speed, 1080, 720 etc.?
 
This will be really weird and quite alarming if there is a Chinese company knocking off HVXs, although it wouldn't surprise me. Have you seen any of the iPhone knock-offs, some of them are surprisingly nice.

If the knock-offs do exist, one more reason to buy from an authorized dealer, right?

Dan
 
Thanks Ted and Thanks so much to Jan from Panasonic for responding to this. No other company rep is attached to their customer base like Panasonic's Jan Crittenden.
And thanks to Jan for getting the P2 sales promo seen through last year. The serial number was K6NC0082 R.

I wish I had done more documentation on it. Part of Foto Con's con job was to charge me a "restocking fee" which I protested and tried to get my lousy credit card company Capital One to help out. Capital One's secret (they are not allow to talk with customers) claims division buried my paperwork and said I took too long to respond. Had I had more documentation, I would have had a winning chance to go to small claims court in NY.

I sent the camera back to Foto Con. (Jim) The only test I did was I recorded to mini DV to test the playback of the motor servo engagement sound I was hearing. I did not get my P2 cards for another month, while I stayed in the DV-SD world. I still have that tape and I could rip an audio file if anyone was interested in hearing this motor vibration/hum/tick sound. Jim, by knockoff, you mean to say it could have been an imitation made by a non Panasonic company?

To conclude, I use my US model HVX200 weekly, have a Red Rock using Nikons and Pentaxs for it and cannot stop talking to potential camera buyers how well thought out and field ready the HVX is and how easy tapeless flash media works. Having recently been forced to use the Canon XL H1, running over 50 tapes of event coverage, the HVX is superior. Even by comparing lenses, because as big as the canon glass is, Canon's auto color levels are desaturated and the HDV compression makes getting footage ready to edit a task needing extra time. Also the H1 is a front heavy camera, despite having a shoulder pad, it is not evenly balanced like an ENG cam.
 
Goldenzah said:
The serial number was K6NC0082 R.
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Hi,

From this serial number I would call it a Japanese Domestic model, just because it has the NC in the middle of the serial. What I was hoping for was a picture of the fact that it said Made in Thailand. That would be the clincher for me and send the alarm through the Osaka country-side. They would be on top of that like water in a rice-paddy. Any chance of that picture.

I am sure that if I send this serial number back to Japan, they will find a duplicate number there. And I do intend to send this back to them, but the weird thing is that camera would have been called an AG-HVX205. Any chance it had a different model number? Or are you saying it was an HVX200 with the above model number?

Thanks,

Jan
 
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Goldenzah, since Jan has confirmed that all true Panasonic AG-HVX200As are created equal, then it seems like the camera you had with a flimsy plastic body had to be a counterfeit.

I was curious to know if this copy even went so far as to record in any of the DVCPro formats. It would seem doubtful.
 
I dont have anywhere in my notes that is was a 205. I have it as a AG-HVX200 P. I dont have a picture of the camera or picture of the serial number to show (That really never occurred to me at the time).

Thanks
 
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