Do I need an NLE card to use P2???

R

rsagi

Member
Hi All,

How is the workflow different with working with P2 card - specifically digitizing wise - if I understand correctly I dont need to digitize the material as it is already digital - but does that mean that I can use ANY laptop to edit without HARDWARE ACCELERATION (Aja, Decklink card using SDI input etc.) ??

If I don't have to use any NLE card, does that mean I can watch HD recorded material and edit it on my laptop without jittering/frame dropouts etc? If I can do that that I guess I am saving a lot of $$$ by NOT buying an NLE card right???

Also, can I control and acquire footage via the FireWire connection to the camera or do I use the P2 card and insert it directly into my laptop?

Thanks in advance,
Steve
 
Let's start with what operating system you will use?

That will help with a response.

If your laptop has a Type II cardbus slot, p2s work directly. With ExpressCard/34 slots, you need a low cost adapter.

But you do need a NLE? to edit. Which do you have/are considering?
 
Sounds like you are just getting started with p2. Check out this tutorial, it has a good overview. The process is not all that much different regardless of what NLE you have.

Here it is.
 
Hi Davis,

Thanks for the prompt response. I do have a PCMCIA in my laptop (WinXP). I use Adobe Premiere 2.0 pro.

I am debated between using an HVX200 or Jvc hd110u camera, and I wonder if the Firewire option on the hd110u will give me the same benefit as the P2 regarding "capturing" RAW (potentially uncompressed) material to my notebook without the need to buy an SDI based card (Aja/Decklink) and monitor/preview HD material on my laptop as I edit.

I understand that the P2 has the work flow added value vs. tape - but to me its more important to save the cost of the capture card which also means I will have to UPDATE my Desktop vs. using my current laptop.

Thanks in advance,
Steve
 
With having a PCMCIA slot in your laptop you can simply insert a P2 card into the slot and copy the files over.

You might want to consider upgrading to Premiere Pro CS3 because the CS3 3.1 version is built to work with DVCPro HD and DVCPro 50 footage natively and works fantastically with the HVX.

Another thing to consider is that HD video in the form of DVCPro is very easy to edit, and because it is an intra-frame codec it requires not much more horsepower than what DV video requires. HD in the form of HDV uses an interframe codec, meaning that it uses sequences of frames bundled together to form a single compressed reference frame within the codec. HDV is much more processor intensive and requires more horsepower to edit effectively.

If your laptop can run Premiere Pro CS3, you wont need any kind of hardware card to work with DVCPro HD footage.
 
William,

I thought I read somewhere that the added value of using an output from the HVX (can remember if it was the firewire port or the SDI on other camera) is that I can bring an external DECK and record uncompressed material in 4:4:4 color space (I know the HVX provides 4:2:2) - assuming the external deck supports recording in a format which is uncompressed.

I intend to do lots of chromakey/green screen work and I know that the color space matters (though someone did do a test between the HD110u and the HVX, and showed that pulling keys is the same between the cameras especially when using plugins like Ultimate to choke/clean the edges- he claims that the "Up conversion" on the HVX is what "kills" it's 4:2:2 potential)

Thanks all for replying.

Steve
 
rsagi said:
I thought I read somewhere that the added value of using an output from the HVX (can remember if it was the firewire port or the SDI on other camera) is that I can bring an external DECK and record uncompressed material in 4:4:4 color space (I know the HVX provides 4:2:2) - assuming the external deck supports recording in a format which is uncompressed.
Click to expand...
You can get uncompressed, but it won't be 4:4:4. No camera outputs 4:4:4 unless it has a dual-link HD-SDI output. The best you'll get from an HVX or any HD-SDI or Component system is 4:2:2.
 
steve, it sounds to me like youre getting a lot of partial information and coming to the wrong conclusions.

you cant compare the jvc hd110 to the hvx200. its not apples to apples. the hd110 shoots HDV the HVX shoots dvcproHD. in my experience, HDV is just an overall crappy format. dvcproHD holds up WAY better for chromakey than HDV does.

whatever laptop you choose, youre going to need an external firewire (at least fw800) drive. most (if not all) built in laptop drives arent fast enough to successfully edit "hd" footage. look at macsales.com for good firewire800 drives. does your laptop even have a firewire800 port?
 
He said his laptop was WinXP, so no, no FW800.

However, you can easily edit DVCPRO-HD off a modern laptop's internal drive. If it's an older PATA drive, maybe it's a little dicey, but a 5400RPM SATA drive is plenty fast enough.

Can't speak for the Mac lineup, but on Windows using Premiere Pro, EDIUS, or Vegas/Raylight, an internal drive is fine. The ideal is to have two drives, one for the system, one for the footage. Not many laptops can have two drives internally. I'm gonna sound like the Lenovo pimp once again, but that's one of my favorite features of the Thinkbook lineup -- you can put a second drive in an UltraBay and have a totally separate SATA drive for footage.
 
If you use Adobe Premiere Pro's OnLocation software to capture straight to hard disk, you can get away with using USB 2.0 external drives. I use some Western Digital MyBook drives that have both firewire and USB 2.0 inputs and I connect the drive(s) using USB 2.0 and connect the camcorder to the laptop's firewire port. Everything works flawlessly through USB 2.0. Just try and make sure to get 7200 rpm or faster on the external drive.
 
Wgzn,

Obviously I have a FireWire port or I wouldn't have asked... :) (Though, im not sure its an "800" FireWire port- will have to check)

My Laptop is not new but was considered the CTO's notebook when it came out (Presario X1000).

WHY CANT A MANUFACTURER GIVE US HVX with 1/2" CCD (Like the PMW EX1) + Interchangable lens (Like the Hd100u) with Choosing whatever compression codec we want and then hookup what ever "off the shelf" sata drive instead of those expensive SXS/P2 cards... :) I guess they dont want to canibalize their existing "high-end" line - but let see what the RED camera does to the market.

Steve
 
Mmmmmmm...interesting. I remember editing using Pinnacle DC2000 capture card in the late 90's and then connecting my VX2000 camera to the firewire just to see that I cant see "smooth" video and or capturing on my laptop. I gues I'll have to try and external SATA drive with 7400/10,000 rpm to see if there is a difference or create a RAID 0.

And by the way, LENOVO is not the only one providing the DUAL DRIVE option, you can get a GATEWAY FX - which comes with TWO HD's bays + good Nvidia acceleration for a GREAT price...and you can even upgrade the CPU to the extreme version. If thats not enough, they are even talking about the ability to scale it up to the QUAD CPU when it becomes mainstream for laptops...but that will depend on the SOCKET type and HEAT DICIPATION...probably feel like a Jet engine is blowing on your hand while moving the mouse... :)

Thanks for all the input guys.

P.S. Barry, do you agree with the previous post that HDV is a CRAPPY technology for ChromaKey work vs. the HVX Pro HD?

Best.
Steve
 
Barry_Green said:
He said his laptop was WinXP, so no, no FW800.

However, you can easily edit DVCPRO-HD off a modern laptop's internal drive. If it's an older PATA drive, maybe it's a little dicey, but a 5400RPM SATA drive is plenty fast enough.

Can't speak for the Mac lineup, but on Windows using Premiere Pro, EDIUS, or Vegas/Raylight, an internal drive is fine. The ideal is to have two drives, one for the system, one for the footage. Not many laptops can have two drives internally. I'm gonna sound like the Lenovo pimp once again, but that's one of my favorite features of the Thinkbook lineup -- you can put a second drive in an UltraBay and have a totally separate SATA drive for footage.
Click to expand...

I was referring to the assertion that the laptop could capture uncompressed if the cam could output.

Not possible.
 
rsagi said:
WHY CANT A MANUFACTURER GIVE US HVX with 1/2" CCD (Like the PMW EX1) + Interchangable lens (Like the Hd100u) with Choosing whatever compression codec we want and then hookup what ever "off the shelf" sata drive instead of those expensive SXS/P2 cards... :) I guess they dont want to canibalize their existing "high-end" line - but let see what the RED camera does to the market.

Steve
Click to expand...

HPX500 does that with 2/3-inch lenses.

2/3" progressive 3-CCDs, DVCPRO HD

Records in 1080/60i, 50i, 30p, 25p and 24p; in 720/60p, 50p, 30p, 25p, and 24p; and in DVCPRO50, DVCPRO and DV.

Interchangable lens

But you won't find different acquisition choices.
 
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