Copyright Music in Demo Reel-Let's Discuss

Copyright Music in Demo Reel-Let's Discuss

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 42.9%

  • No

    Votes: 16 57.1%
  • Total voters
    28
H

Huy Vu

Veteran
This topic was brought up as an aside in another thread, and it's something I've been wondering about for a while, so I thought we can discuss it here.

There's no doubt that in a reel, good music can greatly enhanced the power of the images being shown, and "cutting to the music" is a common technique. Now all of us agrees that we cannot use copyrighted music in our movies, but the same standard do not seem to apply to demo reels. I frequently see reels that uses copyrighted musics, some from respected members of the forum. Since our reels is an integral component of how we present ourselves to prospective clients, it seems odd that we would use someone else's work to present our own without permission. I would like to hear your thoughts on this, and let's do try to keep this civil. I'm not interested in judging anyone, just in your rationale for using copyrighted musics (if you do), or your reasons for not using copyrighted musics.
 
You are not profiting directly from the 'exhibition' of the music used in your reel and - more to the point - it's not any form of public performance.

It's not much different, if at all different, than playing a piece of music you like, for friends in the privacy of your home, or of theirs.

Anyway, the addition of original music to your demo reel is pointless, unless you are the composer. Your prospective client/employer will be focused upon the visuals which are the meat of the presentation. Being able to say "you know, I composed that music, too" is pretty worthless unless you are simultaneously going for a slot as a composer or arranger.
 
It's distribution. Doesn't matter if you make a profit or not. And if viewable on the 'net, it's a public performance.
 
Sad Max said:
You are not profiting directly from the 'exhibition' of the music used in your reel and - more to the point - it's not any form of public performance.

It's not much different, if at all different, than playing a piece of music you like, for friends in the privacy of your home, or of theirs.
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I disagree. It might help you land a job! Good music can help the feel of a reel.

I have nothing against it myself. I just don't quite see it as you do.

Mike
 
David Jimerson said:
It's distribution. Doesn't matter if you make a profit or not. And if viewable on the 'net, it's a public performance.
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That's true. It didn't occur to me, to place a reel on the net...

Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
Sad Max said:
It's not much different, if at all different, than playing a piece of music you like, for friends in the privacy of your home, or of theirs.
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I disagree. It might help you land a job! Good music can help the feel of a reel.
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Well...isn't it obvious that we're talking about something intended to land you a job...? It's not much different, I believe, in a legal sense.
 
Good question. If you produce, direct, shoot or edit commercials, features, tv shows or other work-for-hire projects then most of the VISUALS in your demo reel (let alone the music) are copyrighted by someone other than you. I do have a line item in my standard contract that stipulates that I have the client's permission to use clips from their programs in demonstration reels. As for the music, I currently use music from indie artist's that have given me permission for my demo reel, but it seems like most reels I see have a NIN song, Crystal Method or movie soundtrack thing in there. It's a good question, though, as reels become more elaborate, as to when they become commercials themselves, rather than just a unenhanced citing of clips from projects you worked on.
 
If you want to parse it, any unauthorized reproduction is illegal...But the question isn't really whether or not it's legal, it's whether or not anyone will care. If you are passing out reels to prospective employers, or showing it on your website to a handful of people, generally, nobody will care. I edit trailers all the time for film markets, and the clients always tell me to use whatever music I want as it won't be shown in theaters. Also, I think music labels are coming around to the idea that any exposure of their music is good exposure, so as long as you aren't selling bootlegs of full albums in alleys somewhere, they don't care.
 
My view is it's wrong period. As a musician/songwriter it can be a touchy subject. If I write an album I wouldn't think of making a montage with Indian Jones clips to gain attention to my music or to show off how it could be related visually. Same principle.
You're using it for advertising and you need permission for that.
On the other side of that there's a million musicians out there writing cool stuff that would love to give you permission to use their stuff and you'd be helping out another struggling artist in the process.
If your demo reel isn't any good because the Rolling Stones or Yanni aren't on the soundtrack then there's bigger issues to deal with......
 
I'm definitely on the side of its distribution and unless you have the rights... I'm with Mcgee on the side that it can give an amatuerish feel to the whole thing. Having to rely on music people have heard before and immediately identify is a bit of a crutch IMO.

eta - it doesnt always come amatuerish though, so in your case sad max you probably have good music that works well for your reel. Just out of curiousity what does a set decorator have on a reel - just a montage of scenes that show the set really well? Not something I've ever really thought about...
 
Most of the reels I see are actors, so it's a different gig since there isn't much (if any) music. But when I cut a reel, I use royalty-free stuff, like Soundtrack. As a composer myself, I would be bothered by somebody using my stuff without permission.

As for whether it makes you seem amateur, it never has to me. I might question the ethics of the person who cut it, but it never makes me think less of the actor, only their performance does that.
 
Legally, no. Practically it's done all the time and depending on use is rather expected. Plus your reel is chuck full of unauthorized use. As an editor you don't have permission (in most cases) to use the footage. Even as director/ producer. The release everyone signs is for any use to promote the film, not one of the participants. So 99% of the reels out there and 100% of those with big budget films and national ad's are nothing but copyright infringement. But the basic truth is that you are not selling it, your not making money "directly" and it's the only way anybody has a reel. As long as your not implying in anyway that you created something that you didn't nobody really cares. The only time music really comes into it is with montages, where using the original sound would make a very ugly sequence. To jump for a second to the poster talking about using Indiana Jones clips. Let me flip that a little. Say your composed the score for that film. You would probably want to play the clip... But of course to do that would violate a ton of use restrictions. I'm not arguing the legality but life isn't black and white. I bet at some point in your life you actually exceeded the speed limit somewhere. There is a difference between going 70 on the freeway in the middle of the night and going 70 through a school zone as the kids are trying to cross the street. Though technically both are illegal.
 
Jeff Anderson said:
I'm definitely on the side of its distribution and unless you have the rights....
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Again, it's not a question of legality, it's whether or not you'll get nailed for it. Labels are not going to go after you unless they feel they are losing out an an income stream. At MOST you might get a cease and desist. Web distribution is a little more of a gray area, so I wouldn't put a reel on YouTube unless it was private, or on a website unless it's password protected, and definitely not on a website that generates revenue through ads.
 
There is so much royalty free music that nobody should have a problem and need to rip anyone off.

You are automatically allowed to show anything you have created for self-promotion under the copyright act whether the producers have all rights or not. But that means only for self-promotion.
 
Well the question for me does become, "is it legal?" Cause if it isnt I'm not doing it. I dont have the time or the money to hope I dont get caught. And yes our reel is on the web so its out there for all to see. Legally the MOST they can do to you is alot more than a cease and desist. Most likely thats all that will happen. I'm not a risk taker when it comes to business practices. I'd rather pay now than later.
 
If you showing a clip from a film you worked on your showing a lot of other peoples creations. YOU didn't create that clip, lots of people created that clip. And no you don't get any automatic rights to other peoples work. Nice try but it either works or it doesn't.

I was on a reel evaluation panel and brought up an issue about one reel that had footage shot of a community theatre production. My problem was that ALL theatrical production agreements specifically forbid recordings of any sort, so the fact that it was filmed was a blatant violation, and that bothered me a bit. The producers on the panel were "it's a reel, nobody cares" and these were the folks who would be the ones who cared. The gist of the night was on a reel anything goes except taking credit for stuff you didn't do.

I would mitigate a bit in that I would be more cautious on a web reel. The reason being that on the web it's VERY public and god knows what is going to happen to the clip after some high school kid downloads it and reposts it on YouTube. Reels you send to individuals to get jobs are pretty much exempt, not legally but practically.

craigbowman said:
There is so much royalty free music that nobody should have a problem and need to rip anyone off.

You are automatically allowed to show anything you have created for self-promotion under the copyright act whether the producers have all rights or not. But that means only for self-promotion.
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