NoahK
Hottie Mod
I think it's a good idea- there's nothing wrong with having another method of transferring P2 to a Mac. It's just a question of whether Panasonic or another hardware maker is going to respond to the market.
Noah
If Panasonic Offered A $500 USB2/FW p2 Reader Would You Buy It?
- Thread starter David Saraceno
- Start date
I think it's a good idea- there's nothing wrong with having another method of transferring P2 to a Mac. It's just a question of whether Panasonic or another hardware maker is going to respond to the market.
Noah
ullanta
Veteran
That's not very Green! :-(
What doesn't follow from your assertion is that companies can make a 15'inch laptop with a type II Cardbus slot and make a profit selling it for $450.00.
Eliminate:
1. Windows XP or Vista
2. 15-inch TFT screen
3. Hard drive
4. Motherboard
5. Everything else but the interface necessary to the mounting of a card.
In other words, something similar to Jack Nicholson ordering a chicken salad sandwich in Five Easy Pieces (http://www.robmillard.com/archives/off-the-wall-insights-chicken-salad-sandwich.html).
That can't be done?
If Panasonic can make a USB2 reader with electronics to facilitate copying from a reader to a hard drive, then it can make what many are proposing for far less.
Hey, I've been wrong before.
But again I believe that Panasonic isn't interested.
It makes more money selling the high end stuff; not meeting a market interest.
At least that's my perception.
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ullanta
Veteran
That would be ugly and flimsy and big! And without the motherboard, it wouldn't do anything. But if you go to Ikea, they have empty sorta proptronics laptop cases that will serve your example nicely.
Seriously, research and development takes money, and to make up for it you have to sell a few units for a lot of money, or many many units for a little money. The market is just not that big.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Of course it can be done. And if you could sell 30 million of them, you could get it at the price point you're looking for (or lower).
But when you're moving a few thousand, it doesn't work that way.
But hey, ask the manufacturers. There's obviously demand. I'd love to have it too. But I've been pounding my head against the wall for two years on this issue, and everywhere I look they say the exact same thing, and every time we get some indie developer popping up saying "I'll make it" that effort always flames out. Obviously there's a reason. With P2 popularity getting to the point that Hitachi and Fuji are jumping in, it's obviously not for lack of market. So that leaves feasibility as the problem.
Again, if anyone thinks they can do it, or can talk Addonics or Duel into doing it, please do -- we all want it.
For less, yes. Far less? Apparently not.
I think you would find yourself wrong on that assertion. Every marketing person I've ever asked has been ga-ga over the idea. They ALL want it.
Cannibalize the p2 store and you got a good beginning.
I wish I knew why it is so difficult to engineer this thing.
But at least we're out there discussing it.
It just seems like a hole in the workflow for some of us -- fast, economic ingesting of p2 cards.
Thanks for all the input everyone.
I wish I knew why it is so difficult to engineer this thing.
But at least we're out there discussing it.
It just seems like a hole in the workflow for some of us -- fast, economic ingesting of p2 cards.
Thanks for all the input everyone.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Yes. But the P2 Store is $1800. Take out the hard drive, and now you're down to maybe $1600.
But it's only a hole if you want it to be. I ingest P2 cards all the time for free in my laptop.
wgzn
Veteran
if you can make a fully functioning laptop with a pcmcia reader built in for $800 whats in it for a peripheral maker to make a reader-only for $500. i wonder if the situation might be that its harder to convert pcmcia to fw/usb than to just hardwire it to a motherboard in a paradigm that already exists...
Barry_Green
Moderator
Like I say, either it's harder than everyone's been thinking, or there's just this great big gaping hole in the marketplace just waiting to be filled by some enterprising DIY'er...
wgzn
Veteran
you really have to step back and think about it. if the HVX can hook up and transfer contents via firewire in a $5000 camera. how much of that cameras R&D is just in connectivity? id guess very little. maybe 10% which would justify this thread.
but i might be wrong. maybe half the cameras price is just in the data transfer effort alone? (id doubt it. but admittedly, im no engineer)
youd think, all we're doing is creating a data pathway. if they can hardwire a pcmcia slot to a motherboard and a fw800 jack to a motherboard, why not combine the two efforts? again, im no engineer - so maybe its all harder than it would seem
but i might be wrong. maybe half the cameras price is just in the data transfer effort alone? (id doubt it. but admittedly, im no engineer)
youd think, all we're doing is creating a data pathway. if they can hardwire a pcmcia slot to a motherboard and a fw800 jack to a motherboard, why not combine the two efforts? again, im no engineer - so maybe its all harder than it would seem
wsturtevant
Member
Ok, I have a naive question. How feasible is it to ingest a P2 card via a PC laptop, move it to an external hard drive then copy the footage to my Mac Pro? What are the compatibility issues that need to be met in order to do this?
Yes because i want more than one PCslot!
im working on a multi cam shoot, and i want to be able to offloa more than one card at a time!
im working on a multi cam shoot, and i want to be able to offloa more than one card at a time!
Green Hornet
Veteran
I think if 2 other companies can offer a product between $150 and $200, then Panasonic can as well.
I would like to see the price more around $200, I would probably buy a cheap laptop for $500 with a pcmcia slot than to but just a reader for $500.
If needed, I would buy something to read the cards, but a straigt no frills device should cost more like $200.
I would like to see the price more around $200, I would probably buy a cheap laptop for $500 with a pcmcia slot than to but just a reader for $500.
If needed, I would buy something to read the cards, but a straigt no frills device should cost more like $200.
Green Hornet
Veteran
Barry, your forgetting that the P2 store is an EXCLUSIVE device. Much of that price if for exclusivity, and profit.
A simple reader would make it's profit on volume over exclusivity ( P2 card reader should also be able to function as other PCMCIA card readers as well- wireless card, etc), not just a P2 card reader.
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Effortless.
None. This is my recommended workflow for all Mac users.
In fact, what you're describing is a little more complex than necessary. Instead of going to the laptop's internal drive, just attach an external drive right to the Windows laptop, and ingest directly to that drive. Then plug that drive into your Mac and edit. There's no downside, it's the easiest, simplest, pain-free, ultimate workflow and (if I may be so bold) vastly superior to trying to plink around with a Macbook Pro and a Duel Adapter and having to have FCP installed and write-protecting the cards and all that.
Your external drives must be formatted as FAT32. That's easy, since every drive you buy comes preformatted as FAT32.
If you want an easy and painless P2 workflow, this is the way to go.
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Get a Panasonic Toughbook with two PCMCIA slots. Offload one card to the internal drive and one to an external drive, you should be able to do two cards at full speed.
Or, roll Lenovo style. Get an R61 with a PCMCIA slot *and* an ExpressCard slot. Get the Addonics adapter for $69. Now you've got two PCMCIA slots on two separate busses, so you can offload two cards at full speed.
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Of course they could. So, what are those other products? If you can find anyone anywhere offering a P2->USB or P2->Firewire device (which is what's being contemplated here) then yeah, I agree. But the Duel and Addonics don't count as competition because they don't go to firewire or USB.
Oh, and David? Yes, I'd like to bet.
That's what I recommend to everyone. That's the easiest way to go and it's available right now. And it's much more powerful than just a reader, even if it is overkill.
Barry_Green
Moderator
I'm not forgetting anything of the sort. Whether it's exclusive or not is irrelevant, it's the only device that does the job. If anyone else can make something, they're free to. But so far nobody has, and the only company I've found who would seriously entertain doing the project said they'd have to charge $2,000 for it. And that wouldn't be "exclusive", it's just what they keep saying it needs to cost.
Anyone who can convince Addonics or Duel or any of the other manufacturers about the volume and viability of this market, please go ahead.
It seems to be Barry versus the rest of the board.
I just wonder how any company can make a 3K cam from scratch. You can't do that.
Wait, there's Scarlett!!!!
The fact remains that the company best positioned to make the p2 reader is Panasonic. Voters so far would support that product 2-1.
Some indicate that the device is simply to expensive to make. Other point to the fact that laptops with Type II slots regularly sell in the sub $500 category.
My thought is that Panasonic has larger margins on its current product offerings for mounting and transferring p2 volumes. A simple and inexpensive reader would cannibalize those sales in my view; hence, there is an economic disincentive to market a reader. In fact, I can't identify anything that the company sells for p2 volumes that retails for under $1K.
We edit on a desktop.
The current workflow says we have to:
1. Transfer to a laptop via DA and then to desktop via Firewire target mode or copy to HDD in laptop and then to desktop; OR
2. Keep the four 16 GB cards from a shoot if that is enough, and then use the dicey FW Connect mode that requires using a $5000 cam as a virtual deck with all the FW issues with blown ports.
A simple reader would certainly simplify that workflow, at least for number 2.
As I said, the workflow has a big hole in it.
I just wonder how any company can make a 3K cam from scratch. You can't do that.
Wait, there's Scarlett!!!!
The fact remains that the company best positioned to make the p2 reader is Panasonic. Voters so far would support that product 2-1.
Some indicate that the device is simply to expensive to make. Other point to the fact that laptops with Type II slots regularly sell in the sub $500 category.
My thought is that Panasonic has larger margins on its current product offerings for mounting and transferring p2 volumes. A simple and inexpensive reader would cannibalize those sales in my view; hence, there is an economic disincentive to market a reader. In fact, I can't identify anything that the company sells for p2 volumes that retails for under $1K.
We edit on a desktop.
The current workflow says we have to:
1. Transfer to a laptop via DA and then to desktop via Firewire target mode or copy to HDD in laptop and then to desktop; OR
2. Keep the four 16 GB cards from a shoot if that is enough, and then use the dicey FW Connect mode that requires using a $5000 cam as a virtual deck with all the FW issues with blown ports.
A simple reader would certainly simplify that workflow, at least for number 2.
As I said, the workflow has a big hole in it.
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